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Original poster

Same sex play preferences in children

36 replies

LadyBlaBlah · 16/01/2011 11:11

This is a pretty universal phenomenon that boys like playing with boys, and girls like playing with girls.

(Obviously there are always the few boys that like playing with girls and vise versa but this is not the majority)

I am interested in feminist explanations of this. I haven't ever really read it being addressed.

Below is an abstract from one of the many experiments that tests this - it seems to account for gender stereotyping in some way.

OP posts:
Bunbaker · 16/01/2011 18:12

I have tried very hard to get DD to play with boys and "boys" toys. The main problem was at toddler group all the children her age were girls, not boys, so she grew up playing with girls. At school she prefers playing with girls because the boys play too rough and playfight all the time.

I don't think this has anything to do with conditioning but personal preference. She is 10 now and says she just doesn't like boys. Some of it will be to do with her personality though as she is a gentle child and hates rough and tough playing.

Original poster
LadyBlaBlah · 16/01/2011 18:08

I see that differently Seth. I see she picks apart science (rightly) in a quest to show that the evidence is flawed. B-C came back a few times and agreed that science with humans is never perfect test tube science, but just because of this you cannot discount all the findings of Psychology. I agree with him. I also happen to agree with him that the (non perfect) studies on hormones and behaviour cannot simply be dismissed.

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Original poster
LadyBlaBlah · 16/01/2011 18:03

I would prefer to know the truth and there have been some seemingly interesting studies, yet as you say exexpat, you have to read them with the understanding that there may be/probably is author bias, and when they are repeated in the press, such 'facts' are always twisted and used for political gain.

It feels like because of this sometimes we don't get to discuss the important issues.

If me, as a women, comes out and says I think there may be some biological sex differences which may be responsible for behaviours, then somehow I am not on for the feminism cause............and I think that is because it looks like I am on the patriarch's side, but I am not, I would rather feminism dealt with everything truthfully than hide facts just because others (patriarchs) have twisted the truth for their own gain.

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sethstarkaddersmackerel · 16/01/2011 17:59

Fine does not say that there is evidence for no sex differences. She says that there is little good evidence for significant sex differences. Pretty important distinction between evidence against/lack of evidence for.

I think she wins the duels with Baron-Cohen hands down.

exexpat · 16/01/2011 17:57

I think I'm with you on the not-so-sure about conditioning thing any more, LadyBla. I know it has a huge effect (eg conditioned preference for pink in 3-year-old girls) in some areas but some things do seem to run deeper - boys and moving things, girls and dolls - and there are some plausible biological arguments I have heard for that.

The recent story about chimps using sticks as dolls was interesting (much more of this kind of play in female chimps, carried on for longer, until birth of first baby, while boys did it less and stopped at adolescence), though I expect that as usual the significance of the finding has been seized on with excessive glee in some quarters.

Original poster
LadyBlaBlah · 16/01/2011 17:42

I am not sure Cordelia Fine offers a reasonable explanation for this. Gender segregation is pretty pervasive and children as young as 2 express a preference for playing with their own sex, and this is not matched by their toy preferences or method of play. Although I am not sure what Fine does explain in her book tbh - she questions science which is great but her own evidence for no sex differences are not ultimately convincing IMO. I have been fascinated by the duels between her and Baron Cohen about sex differences, and think he has some important points.

I used to be a straight conditioning type of person, I'm not so sure anymore TBH. THis sort of behaviour just leaves me with so many questions about whether social conditioning can be so pervasive. And if there are biological sex differences, what does this mean for feminism? (a question I ask myself, not necessarily a question for here)

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sethstarkaddersmackerel · 16/01/2011 17:07

(just had my 3 nephews here, one of whom hangs out mostly with girls. And dd played with them quite happily. At school her best friends are a girl and a boy.)

sethstarkaddersmackerel · 16/01/2011 17:05

in fact in some ways it's amazing how many children resist the stereotyping.

sethstarkaddersmackerel · 16/01/2011 17:04

I don't think it's that surprising really considering boys and girls are conditioned from birth to think they are different. (Read Delusions of Gender by Cordelia Fine if you want evidence of this.)

FlamingoBingo · 16/01/2011 13:48

I think all children are different just like all adults are different. I think all adults and all children should be taken seriously and not herded into groups that create generalisations. If lots of boys seem to want to play with lots of boys, then who cares? Does it need to be noted?

Personally, I notice vast differences at some times between the way my DDs play compared to the way their male friends play. At other times I notice very many similarities. I think we are conditioned to notice the differences and use them to prop up the 'boys and girls are different' thing. When actually, I notice as vast differences between different girls, and different boys but there's no nice, neat, tidy generalising conclusion to draw from that.

ISNT · 16/01/2011 11:35

Hmmm

My first thought is, if boys like to play with boys and girls with girls, then no biggie, as long as people don't start saying that it means xyz boys are like this and girls are like that and so women actually are dim and have to stay at home with babies while men are v clever and wonderful and get to do lots of other stuff and have all the money.

So that's my first thought Grin

Looking at my children, 3.5 and 1.5. Our neighbours and my friends have male children a similar age to DD1 and she has always played with them, no problem. Her best friend is a boy.

So 1-1 I'm not sure about these findings.

In group situations - I think that the fact that girls and boys are aware that they are supposed to have different interests, and to be different, and to play differently, will impact on this. It's impossible to unpick nature from nurture. At DDs nursery they have encouraged her into a friendship group of girls. And the feedbacl from adults about groups of girls playing and groups of boys playing will be more positive than mixed groups. I am beginning to realise that loads of adults just love to see children conforming to stereotype, the children pick up on this.

Or maybe there is an innate reason that boys play with boys and girls with girls.

One last thought - the "play styles" that they used in the experiment were stereotypical - many boys play with dolls in a "nurturing" way and girls in a rougher way. So the experiment had stereotypical assumptions at its heart in the first place.