Miriam O'Reilly has won on age discrimination but not on sex discrimination

Or are wrinkles attractive on men but not women? nooka

Oh yes. John Craven who kept his job on Countryfile was not warned about his wrinkles on Hi-Def and he's 68, 15 years older then Miriam. I've nothing against John Craven but it's horrible when you see UK TV morphing into a terrible version of Fox TV which usually has a pouffy haired old git doing the paternalistic thing next to a pouffy blonde cutie. 'And over to you Ted!' with a flirty smile.

And one of the most telling points raised by the tribunal is this:
The discrimination was not justified. The wish to appeal to a prime-time audience, including younger viewers, is a legitimate aim. However, we do not accept that it has been established that choosing younger presenters is required to appeal to such an audience

So the BBC (run by white, middle aged - short - that's very important) men are obsessed with youth but their get-rid-of-the menopausal-old-bat-and-stick-a-pretty-face-in-ther e-instead formula doesn't get the audiences in. Julian Fellowes, the Oscar winning script writer, has said that television executives are 'obsessed with this mythical youth audience,' whereas the average age of the televison watcher is 52. Drama in particular is watched by older people, but ask any script writer and they will tell you the first words out of the executives' mouths will be: 'Can we cast young?'

Actually that's very depressing.

The really stupid thing about it is that Miriam O'Reilly is attractive. At least as attractive as Matt Baker who was chosen to replace all the older women. I really can't see why a program like Countyfile was moved to primetime in any case (seems an odd decision, and I have watched and quite enjoyed it in the past), or why stories about the countryside should be more appealing if they are presented by an averagely attractive younger man or an averagely attractive older woman.

Surely if wrinkles are unattractive in HD (one apparent comment by Jay Hunt) then John Craven was the obvious candidate for the chop? Or are wrinkles attractive on men but not women?

On the cover of the Economist is the face of that guy who started Facebook. Now I don't want to be all patriarchal, but I felt like they were taking the piss out of women.
It was a close up of his face, not a bit of photo-shopping, his eyes were blood-shot, he was all blemished and pale (and he's only 26). He looked like your next-door neighbour. Fine, nothing wrong with that. BUt that would never have been allowed in a woman.
In fact that facebook guy is not actually as ugly as that picture made him out to be. Any woman who had done well in business would have to be "made over" or photoshopped or whatever.
I almost felt like it was saying, "when you're this powerful, and a man, who gives a damn what you look like. He certainly doesn't"

Female TV presenter I knew some years ago was told by her producer (never asked if it was a man or woman sadly) that she had 4 weeks to lose 1.5-2 stone or lose her job. I was and said "but they can't do that!". She said, "I know that, you know that, they know that, but if I don't, I lose the job". So she spent the next four weeks on a starvation diet, lost the weight and (for a while anyway) kept the job. How many male presenters have had the same ultimatum I wonder?

I suspect a lot of it is that there's a reluctance to deal with intelligent older and stroppier women when you can have 20 something bimbos who will do whatever you say because they really really want to be on the telly.

Agreed.

I guess I hope TV bosses will have to think a lot more carefully about these issues now.

In the past, they've been pretty much able to dismiss presenters with a wave of the hand (especially as many presenters are on freelance contracts).

FFS most men on the TV don't look good.

They look shit.

But most women look good.

That's not talking about actors, that's just presenters, newsreaders, commentators etc.

Yes you have a point. This is what one of the top female Beeb producers said about looks being important on telly. Quote from Telegraph.

"Whether a woman was ?pretty? or not was the main consideration when hiring a new presenter for Countryfile, it was claimed yesterday.

Series producer Teresa Bogan sent a note to bosses that suggested contenders should be attractive and intelligent above all else, a tribunal heard.

The note was revealed in a sex and age discrimination case brought against the BBC by axed Countryfile presenter Miriam O?Reilly.

It appeared in a handover notice Miss Bogan gave to the BBC?s head of rural affairs in which she described the ?urgent? need for host Julia Bradbury to have a stand-in when she was unavailable.

Heather Williams QC, representing 53-year-old Miss O?Reilly, suggested the comments indicated that a contender?s attractiveness was the primary concern of the decision makers.

She said: ?You chose to highlight what you thought would be relevant as to the consideration of whether you should be used or not.?

Miss Bogan refuted this
and said it was a ?personal observation? but conceded looks were important for television.

?If anything I think it is an observation on television,? she added.

?I think it is a visual medium, we?re looking for people who can do their job and if they look good on screen that is no bad thing.

?I watch telly like everybody else. We make our own observations, I think we see attractive people in general.

?By and large it tends to be more attractive women. People on TV generally look good and it is important that it looks good.

?There are a lot of attractive women on TV but I don?t think attractiveness is a fact of age. Jackie Brambles was in her 40s and I thought she looked great, equally I think Miriam looks great.?"

I see what you're saying Seth but I just don't feel the women I've known in TV were necessarily trying to second guess men.

They were just very focused and success-driven in their own right.

Their decisions, I suspect, are based largely on their a gut feeling of what the audience wants (ie possibly younger, fresher faces).

The tribunal pointed out that the BBC managers in this case had no proof that this is what audiences wanted - just an instinct and this isn't justification in itself to discriminate on the grounds of age.

I have to disagree that most decisions at the Beeb are made by men.

There have been a lot of women at the top at the BBC - senior managers like Jana Bennett, Jay Hunt, Lorraine Heggessey and Janice Hadlow.

Jay Hunt was instrumental in the removal of the four women from Countryfile.

The problem is more that TV channel heads and producers (male or female) have been able to make snap arbitrary and highly subjective decisions on presenters.

Miriam's case will change that quite radically, I think, and TV managers will have to demonstrate much fairer and open selection processes.

That is a myth put forward by older men.

Exactly the same myth put forward by ugly/ unattractive men, which says that women aren't visual.

Wishful thinking, I think.

All women like older men?? lol, like he's qualified to make that statement.

No. Not really. And, if he considered his success rate with the local female youth, he would realise this in his heart of hearts.

Call me a weirdo, but I like hearing from people of all ages/appearances. And if I want to perv (and, funnily enough, that isn't every time I turn on the TV), I'd rather have someone I would fuck in real life without feeling like some kind of gerontophile.

Nick Ross also said that men like younger women and women like older men . Really?

90%

Oh absolutely.

If men were confronted by images of themselves where 9% of them looked like David Beckham, Enrique Iglesias, the Take That shaggers and other assorted gorgeous looking blokes, their self-esteem would soon drop to levels almost as low as women's...

Apparently had Nick Ross on C4 news saying how hard it is for the young men. Much harder for them to find jobs, because everyone's employing older men & younger women apparently. The word "diddums" springs to mind. Nice that they'll have a 50+ year career to look forward to after spending their twenties in the wilderness. Also, did he not think to wonder WHY that was? God I have said I'd like to see more 20-30 year old male presenters I don't know how many times. It would be nice to see some men of my own age, fgs, and maybe some women who look like my older friends, or my mother, or grandmother.

Yes well, women do like a bit of beefcake, so why are we offered Bruce Forsythe, Jeremy Paxman and Adrian Chiles? Chris Evans, Chris Moyles, Terry Wogan?

Etc. etc. ad nauseum (cannot be arsed to do a long list of sexually unattractive men on the telly).