What does someone actually mean when they say "I'm not a feminist"?

Well, Hopeforthebest thought she was a member of the club, but has been told by several long-standing members that she isn't. So how does that work out?

The problem here is that I think people are reactingh against a caricature of feminism, rather than actual feminism.

NAncyDrew, did you see my question about whether you are only prepared to join a movement or a club once it has become perfect? Do you apply the standards you apply to feminism to your political party, religion or golf club?

Well, that's you told what your label is HopeForTheBest.
So you may think you are a feminist and be willing to say so, but you now face a line of feminist judges who will point out your erroneous assumptions. You are deluded in their eyes. Come and join me in the wonky and unsuitable vegetable basket. I have chocolate.

HopeForTheBest, but expect the worst and keep paddling.

Ok, I used to not be a feminist because a) I hadn't thought about it because b) I didn't think it applied to me because c) I was young, pretty and academically ok, so I was/am probably doing the best a woman can do out of playing along with patriarchy.

I'm only 24 now and haven't, to my knowledge, suffered in my career because I am a woman. However. Objectification of women is everywhere and it is pervasive. When I was 18 I was sexually harassed by the bar manager, almost for the first time, being attractive wasn't fun.

The career I'm entering into is being financially devalued as it becomes more female dominated.

I'm also not so narrow minded as to feel that if i'm ok, there isn't a problem. I don't dispute the stats out there about rape, domestic violence and didn't dispute "The Equality Illusion" I read. After all this, how could I refuse the label of feminist?

seeker the outset of this thread is a good example of MN bitching re feminism: a number of woman choose (for various reasons) to not label themselves and are attacked as stupid, uneducated, simpering men pleasers.

In RL I have been told that caring about my appearance is shallow and trivial and goes against feminism.

I have been criticised (and actually formally complained about) by a woman who was very vocally "feminist" because when we sat on an interview panel together I felt that a man was a better candidate for a job.

I have been told the fact that I qualified and worked in a male dominated arena and then gave it up to be a SAHM had "set back feminism". Equally I have been acused of being part of a misoginistic regime by undertaking the same work. Seems you can't win.

I am happy to acknowledge the good that feminism has done. But do I want to be associated with some of the more millitant aspects of the "movement"? No I absolutely do not.

Sorry... I should also add that I know that women are disadvantaged hugely economically and in the work place as soon as they have children.

I am also aware that we have a long way to go before we can truly say that men and women are equal. It won't happen when "womens" jobs are still seen as the soft or crap option. It won't happen when there is any kind of pay gap for the same jobs. It certainly won't happen until a man and a woman can both run for US president and the sex of the candidate isn't mentioned nor is there any commentary on what the female wears.

I was quite serious with my d} I think alot of women have a very negative view of feminists as strident, hatchet faced, kill joys, manhaters who think any woman who does anything for any man is oppressed. It is an image perpetrated by the media and others and is so far from the truth as to be laughable, but nonetheless persists.
Back to Rebecca West:
'I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat.'

'One of the reasons that I avoid some feminist discussions and activities is that I enjoy debates, but not polemic arguments, and the difference matters to me enormously.'

I said that earlier, I don't believe that it is all feminists who are rude, derogatory, insulting and given to targeting individuals who disagree with them with a view to smashing them into dust.
It is some individual's personal style of argument, and I think that they would have the same flaws if they were passionate S&B posters IYSWIM.
So I will engage in debate if I think that's what's happening and disengage, or not start in the first place if I think the poster is a polemic debater.
Nothing to do with not wanting a fight, or being passive. I just don't see the point in wasted effort and I have always chosen my fights carefully.

"Ah, the sweet optimism of youth! I presume you think differently now?"

Yes and then again no. I still know myself/women to be equal to men in every way.

Since leaving uni none of my friends have found they have missed out on jobs because they are women. In fact, more of my female friends have been able to get jobs than my male friends. My male friends have found it much, much harder to get employment and my female friends have ended up with some fantastic jobs.

At my first workplace after leaving school I found a lot of sexual discrimination. It was a real boys club. I was never in a position to get a promotion but it was openly acknowledged that you needed to be a male and a friend of the boss to get ahead. Or at least the wife of a friend of a boss. It didn't ever bother me but it probably would have if I had wanted one of the promotions. TBH I just assumed it was because we were in China and you can get away with this crap here and I just thought of the men as pathetic dinosaurs who would never get away with that this behaviour in the UK.