What does someone actually mean when they say "I'm not a feminist"?

For instance there was that time recently where a girls school was burning, and the police prevented the firefighters from rescuing the girls because the girls faces were not covered. It was considered better that the girls die than have their honour "ruined" by a man seeing their face.

Stuff like that makes me so upset and angry, and I can't not react to it, I can't sit back and think everything is fine. My life is pretty good TBH, but I look around and see this stuff happening, and it makes me so so angry.

Unless she becomes disfigured in a car crash, gets a disease, etc. Gosh I'm such a little ray of sunshine.

Ah, yes. But no more so than terrible things happening to people for other reasons. Actually, I don't do angry at all - I think it's more tearful.

What about the international angle, oracle? How do you feel when you read about terrible things happening to women around the world because of their sex? Doesn't it make you angry? It makes me angry.

Lawks, my DH would have to look hard to find someone better than me (see - a goodly dose of high self esteem is also useful). If he dies, there is life insurance. He has no proper job anyway, so can't lose it.

My daughter will take up the 'pretty' baton for me once I become invisible. But she is at a girls' school because I do believe that both sexes need to be educated separately in order to do really well. How does that sit with feminism?

c. you'd better hope your rich husband doesn't turn out to be a twonk of the highest order once you've got him.

Lots of people my age (20s) have been told that 'feminism' is outdated, has been proven wrong, and describes women too bitter to fight on a level playing field.

Lots of people also think that a 'feminist' is someone who believes women are superior to men.

Women my age are constantly made aware that women get better results than men at school, and that the laws have never been more positive in terms of helping women/mothers have careers. Many people feel that identifying as a 'feminist' is tantamount to being ungrateful for these advances.

Ah yes, marrying well.
a) you have to be good looking
b) you'd better hope your husband doesn't lose his job/die/run off with someone he likes more (divorce pay-outs aren't all they're cracked up to be)

Couldn't stand the vulnerability myself, but I guess some people don't think too deeply about things.

Oracle, you may find the punch harder when you stop being pretty (or get beyond a certain age) and become invisible.

Suspect some people mean 'I don't want that label'. Sadly.

Oh, this again. I am with missaltoekisses and amuminscotland - I don't concern myself more with feminism than any other ism relating to people who are oppressed. I believe in equality and would stand up for anyone whether male or female who are damaged by the world as it is now. Labelling myself as feminist would be reductionist so I say I am egalitarian.

In my own life I have witnessed more direct experience of other forms of prejudice than sexism. Yes, I've apparently been lucky.

Ormirian, 'tis a good question. TBH, I don't care about them any more or less than I care about random unattractive and poorly educated men. If pushed, I suppose I'd say that everyone - male and female alike - has a responsibility to make the best of whatever nature and their environment has thrown at them, and that it isn't my responsibility to do it for them. I particularly don't see it as my responsibility to ease their path just because they're female (as if I were in a position to ease anyone's path to anywhere other than Tesco!)

Oracle might well be my friend Quite a lot of women genuinely feel that way, I think.

Hmmm

Has anyone tried talking about the global situation with self-identified non-feminists? The taleban, FGM, saudi that sort of thing? Did it get you anywhere?

Maybe they just think there is no need to label yourself a feminist because you want equal rights...we all want that don't we?

oracle - assuming you are serious, what do you suggest women do who aren't pretty and well-educated? Or don't you care about them?

This is a very interesting discussion. I always say I'm not a feminist, and what I mean by that is that I have done very well in life by being very pretty (which means that you can get men to do anything you want them to do - which, for me, means all the things I don't like doing), very clever (PhD), very well educated, and from a well off background. I have chosen to be a SAHM because I have no desire to have a career; my one year in a professional career annoyed me immensely because I was surrounded by people who expected me to be a feminist and as career-driven as they were. I secretly hope my daughter will marry someone well off and have four children before she's 30 rather than ending up a 35-year-old career woman who's single and childless (though am spending a fortune on school fees just in case). By the same token, I don't believe that marrying well is an option that's likely to be open to my son - so I suppose I'm not only non-feminist but sexist to boot.

So far as the under-representation of women in top posts is concerned, I'd just say that they have better and more fulfilling things to do than wanting to be top of the judiciary. I rather pity people (men) who think this is the greatest measure of success.

There should be LeninGrad, but my brain fins it hard to think when I'm being battered by words and shouted at. I love reading StewieGriffinsMums posts, exactly the sort of stuff that makes me think and challenges my normalities. As do your posts.
There are other posters who are passionate and articulate and have very valid points, but I somehow feel bulldozed and I don't like it.
Personal response though, not having a go at very committed people.

goblin - I so agree. I am fed up with expressing my opinions and being rapped over the knuckles by people who know better. I am a woman, and a feminist by my own lights. That's enough for me.

One of the reasons that I avoid some feminist discussions and activities is that I enjoy debates, but not polemic arguments, and the difference matters to me enormously.

I think also that some women feel that gender prejudice works for them. They can get men to deal with 'difficult' things like the car and money, don't have to have a career (assuming they don't want one) but enjoy their husbands' earnings etc. Of course the problem with this approach is that you have to have very nice men (or saps) around you to make it work, otherwise you end up with no power at all.

I have been treated rather nastily on here before when I said that I'm not a feminist, and I also find the lists at the top of this thread very insulting.

Nonetheless, I will give my opinion again. I do not call myself a feminist, neither would I want to. I don't like being labelled. I believe in equality, and have and will continue to fight for that. If however I felt that men / race / disabilities were being discriminated against, I would also fight their corner if I had the power.

Mind, you, if you asked my husband, he might say that I am a feminist, as we share responsibilities, decisions, I've done well in very male-orientated industries in the past, do well in my career, have challenged situations that I felt unfair before. I however see that as a human right that should be fought for, not something gender-specific. Also, I feel that sometimes labelling something is counter-productive, people get defensive. Present your point or argue your case based on facts.

Hmm, MN ate my post.

Dittany and Vesuvia Unfortunately I have met people like that, I'd point you to them but I didn't exactly want to stay in touch. Understandably I feel.

Luckily they aren't in the majority by a long shot, but I can see why some people's view of feminism is coloured (actually clouded is probably a better word) by these -slightly- -unhinged- people.

I found myself doubting whether I agreed with feminism for a bit too, even though it's daft to be swayed by their logic. It does affect you when it is so aggressive with it - and let's face it, when you are arguing that half the human race should be in servitude to the other half, in order to atone for it originally being the other way round. You're going to rely on aggression, not logic.

And if that aggression is telling you that in order to be a {insert whatever they think they are}, you need to hate others and change your life dramatically, it will make you want to run the other way.

I'm thankful that this isn't the way it is here, but it does account for why some people don't feel comfortable calling themselves feminists.