Does anyone else find the idea of a 'dads only' toddler group irritating?

Josierosie - I work there too but I think it is daunting for men to come in to a place with all female staff and nearly all female group attendees. It is a good thing I think if it helps them to engage in services especially the most vulnerable.

Hmmm if it is true as the OP says that the men get bacon sandwiches paid for by the church while the women don't, then that is a reason to feel a little put out!

I am just trying to clarify some thoughts in my mind about these bacon sandwiches. And how they're for the men. Women get biscuits. Why not bacon sandwiches? Might start a thread later. Food is very important, after all

I work for SureStart Children's Centres - every single piece of our publicity including signs on buildings includes the phrase - '....welcomes all mums/dads/carers'. How much clearer could we make it that dads are extremely welcome at our services?? Yet dad attendance is probably around 5% of total parent attendance, which I find immensely frustrating.

I understand that some dads find it all a bit awkward, but as other posters have said, mums are expected to just get on with it and don't get rewarded or made out to be heroes just for spending time with their children.

Damn, I really want a bacon sandwich now.

All power to anyone who goes to parent and toddler groups. I found them a special kind of hell.

Nothing to stop them having bacon sarnies and pitching in if they wanted to, UQD.

I think what people are objecting to is that it sounds more fun than their group and they secretly wish theirs was more like that :)

It is done by Surestart in our area and has been made to get teen dads and other marginalised groups to engage with services. Many have experienced poor parenting themselves and by encouraging them to participate it can try and build relationships with families and help them feel part of the community.

We have many dads who have been through the care system or ones that have no parenting model in which to copy. Through getting them to groups like this it gives a chance to get the dads to do one to one if needed and to help them. As many men find it more difficult to open up emotionally and are often harder to reach, especially the very young dads. We have this group at my work and I think it is really beneficial to children and families.

UQD, my OH was a SAHD with our first and hated going to M&T groups.

'As it happens I was lucky when I went to toddler groups with DD, as I knew two women there who were already DW's friends, and this somewhat lessened my potential for being a weirdo, inadequate or sexual predator. But I know full well this is not a lot of dads' experience. (Anyone remember the episode of "Cold Feet" with Adam going to the toddler group? It's often a bit like that at first...)

If the man isn't particularly chatty and a social animal with lots of casual conversation gambits, the hostility often doesn't change.

There are plenty of female groups which exclude men. I think you have to try very very hard to see a mens and toddlers group, with or without bacon sandwiches, as discriminatory.

I'm just surprised one of the PC wagon on here hasn't complained that the bacon is discriminatory to Jews and Muslims.

I mean, women have had to put up with so much shit from male-dominated workplaces, learning how to be like men, to fit in with men, but men can't be expected to learn traditionally 'female' rules and etiquette...they have to set up a group by themselves that excludes women

I see a problem with it, but for too many reasons to outline here. One reason is that I see this as just the tip of the iceberg of what is to come, I really do. I don't think there will be any corresponding relinquishment of economic or political power, and yet men will slowly begin to be regarded as the 'true' parents in the eyes of society and law. It's lose-lose for women.

I was going to say that I didn't see the problem until I got to the bacon sandwiches.

I love bacon sandwiches

Posters who have said it's all about the bacon are completely right IMO

Round here the toddler groups are stuffed with dads though so not much need for this sort of thing - I've never seen one specifically for dads, or specifically for mums either. They always put "parent" or even "carer" - thinking about it most groups around here are 1/2 GPs (including grand-dads!).

Ever since I read this thread I have been craving bacon sandwiches :o

Surely anything that makes dads comfortable in this kind of setting has to be seen as welcome.

I know a group locally which does this - the bacon sandwiches were - shock horror - the dads' own idea. There isn't a diligent woman being servile behind the counter with tea and sandwiches, you know - everyone used to muck in, from what I remember (although it's been a good few years since I had anything resembling a toddler). It's not about "lavishing with praise" and I find it amusing that the offensive bacon sandwiches automatically produce the huffy response that they are seen as a "reward".

This kind of knee-jerk resentfulness is very unhelpful. Instead of derisively pooh-poohing initiatives to get dads involved, mums should perhaps be asking why it it that someone obviously saw the need for this sort of group - driven, I don't doubt, by experiences I and may other dads have had of being the "lone male" at the parent-and-toddler groups ("Mum and toddler" in all but name - and sometimes even in name).

As it happens I was lucky when I went to toddler groups with DD, as I knew two women there who were already DW's friends, and this somewhat lessened my potential for being a weirdo, inadequate or sexual predator. But I know full well this is not a lot of dads' experience. (Anyone remember the episode of "Cold Feet" with Adam going to the toddler group? It's often a bit like that at first...)

Forgot to say the Dad's one costs £3. Whereas the weekly toddler group is £1.00. Doesn't do bacon sarnies but has healthy snacks for tots and homemade cakes for parents/carers and we had lots of dads and they were great at tidy-up time.

I bloody love our Dad's and Tots group. I get a lie in. I wish it was more than once a month. Ours is not run by the church but a gang of mummies. And they get bacon butties and endless coffee whilst the kids get a drink and copious amounts of toast.

I also used to run a toddler group - thankless bloody task that was. Easy to find fault not so forward in actually helping.

I do see what you mean and in most comparable circumstances I react quite angrily (e.g. male only golf clubs etc) but I have to confess that I hadn't really thought about it like that - our local Sure Start centre runs a similar Saturday morning playgroup and, I have to say, in desperation to have a quiet morning to myself I have been urging DH to go along with DS1 for some weeks!

I imagine that it might be a good opportunity for some fathers who might feel intimidated by going to something dominated by Mums.

Definitely annoying about the bacon sarnies though1!

I don't have a problem with any exclusive activity where the default arrangement for that activity tends to be quite different. Does that make sense? So, round here, a Dads and children group would work, as would a young parents group (we have the latter, but not the former). A middle aged women and children group would be unnecessary, because that is the default setting. Were I however to have brought up my children where I went to ante natal classes, I might well have considered an "older mums" group, because at 30 I was a good decade older than most of the other women in my group.

DH took DD to our regular toddler's group a couple of times when I had to go into work that day. He got on OK but I know it was a bit of an effort for him being not only the the only dad there but also a good deal older than the mums. But DH is a very friendly, gregarious person who gets on with people in general very easily. I'm not and I know that, if the boot were on the other foot, I would have found it very difficult and perhaps impossible to have done it. I know that the group we attended would have gone out of their way to make any dad feel welcome but it was still almost exclusively mums who attended with their kids.

It would be interesting to find out how the group is regarded by those who attend and how well-attended it is. The "give mums a break" thing does jar a bit, I agree, but in principle surely it's a good thing to cater for fathers who might want to bond with their kids and get peer support from other dads?

Oh, and the group we went to had the best home baking I've ever encountered so no bacon butties required :)

I personally think it's a good thing. There are too many dads who wouldn't be comfortable to go to a toddler group and be faced with being the only guy there (that's men for you!). If this helps to get dads at play groups with their children then I think it's no bad thing.

As others have said if it's the bacon thing that bothers you all, do your own at your groups.

But treating any male that demonstrates an interest in parenting or childcare as a hero to be lavished with praise and bacon sarnies is at least a corrective to the more usual attitude that "it's just not right, is it?", or that they are (variously) secret paedophiles or sexually predatory on the SAHMs.

We should have a society in which neither attitude is projected, obviously.

I think anything to encourage dads to remember that they're parents too and that they should get involved has got to be a good thing. I've seen dads get the real evil-eye when they have come into toddler groups.

But if it's really the bacon sarnies that bother you why don't you suggest it for the groups you go to?

I kind of see what you're getting at but at the same i benefit from 2 lovely quiet Saturday mornings a month when DH takes the boys to Dad's Group :)

It takes some guts to start going to any group (whether a Mum or Dad) but i think most mums have it a bit easier they meet other mums at AN classes, etc. so you go to a group with people you already know.

I'm very impressed with my DH 'braving' the group to begin with and for sticking with it. He's the only Dad i know that goes.

Plus it's a different environment for the boys, DS1 (4) particularly loves all that 'male time'.
So they have bacon sarnies? i don't mind, i get to have a long bath in peace and the house to myself, both rarities.