Burlesque is it grotesque?

Then maybe you should do a bit more research. I would. Even in my very limited experience, what my granda was talking about was over 80 years old.

So go to it Claig. Research before you make up your mind and start inflammatory posts on'tinternet..

Oh my! Is this another sad meedja attempt to make us slate the choices of other females, just because they're a bit risque?

I haven't, no - it's never been something I've sought out!

(I'm more likely to be watching dh displaying much of his bum on the stage at the other end of the hall, as he tries to get someone else's amp to talk to his guitar...)

At the most recent event where I saw burlesque performers & goth bands, filming was rather frowned on as inappropriate.

But I daresay if you google, some ignorant bugger will have uploaded stuff.

'It wouldn't surprise me'

'They may intend'

Own up - you actually write for the DM, don't you?

There's no substance to any of this; you've read a rather snide tabloid article about something you know bugger all about & worked yourself into a lather over it.

I don't fully agree with dittany or tethers on the subject of burlesque, but I can respect both their views as informed.

I struggle to do so with your extrapolations, tbh.

No - they're established acts. It's a world away from X-Factor.

Even I've heard of Dirty Martini!

& some of the dance routines on X-Factor, I would class as far more misogynistic & objectifying than anything you're likely to see performed as burlesque.

My grandfather used to talk to me about Burlesque. For him there were two different types, Burlesque: Female entertainers, and "Chape Burlesque"(his words): nasty, cheap, tease acts, who would often go further for money.

I personally love the Burlesque art form. And their's is the art of stimulation (both mentally and physically). It's like comparing Geisha to street prostitution. It is about doing working and creating an act and taking pride in that work, as opposed to (literally) getting into men's pants as a way of getting into their wallets.

Well you can be, because the majority aspire to be like them.

But current performers are people like Dirty Martini, Vicky Butterfly, Diva Hollywood etc.

I'd think twirling them would be more of a challenge than sticking them on...

"Someone who is dead Kaloki can't be the epitome of "the scene"."

Mind you dittany, dead burlesque would be interesting... Being as how it's all encompassing and doesn't pander to mainstream ideals of beauty and all. Why should being dead be a barrier to empowerment through taking your clothes off? C'mon squares

Although I'm not sure how you'd stick the pasties on.

Actually, thinking about it, the origins of Burlesque are at least much less dodgy than the origins of something like the can-can! And the can-can doesn't have the same kind of reaction to it.

KalokiMallow wrote - "A higher rated Burlesque performer is someone like Sally Rand."

Sally Rand (1904-1979)
Gypsy Rose Lee (1914-1970)

These women were performing long before second wave feminism. Sexual objectification of women was not challenged in those days. It is depressing for a feminist to think that we are returning to such times.

So who are highly-rated current performers?

I don't feel that someone whose act involves taking some of their clothes off is automatically any more objectified than someone who comes on after them & sings, though.

I daresay I objectified A-ha quite a bit, 25 years ago.

Look, I'm not a huge fan - I do seem to have seen a fair bit of it recently, though, on the same bills as my dh's band, & some of it I enjoyed. Some of it I think is rather cleverly done (there's a lass called Twiggy Starlust who does a good parody of androgynous male glam types...) - but I'd not pay to get into an evening's worth of it.

Is any sort of onstage nudity objectifying? Burlesque aside, the last time I saw any was a revival of the 'Romans in Britain'.

That argument doesn't really work though.

For example, every time I tell someone I like goth music they assume I like Marilyn Manson as they believe he epitomises what Goth is all about. Which he doesn't.

Just because Dita is the most known, doesn't mean she is the epitome of the scene.

She's not a very good dancer dittany

So not actually too highly rated in the Burlesque scene, and she is very much the traditional stripper.

A higher rated Burlesque performer is someone like Sally Rand.

Some, not a lot. Some.