Women only wear short skirts to attract men?

A man who can't tell the difference between looking in a normal way /reciprocal flirting and leering/staring/making someone uncomfortable has something wrong with him TBH. I don't believe that a normal man has trouble understanding whether a woman is enjoying his "attention" or not. Some just don't care how it makes the target feel, they do what they want to do. Some actively enjoy the feelings of discomfort they generate in the other person.

As for "archetypes", why not try the "archetypal" middle aged/old man leering at 14 year olds at a bus stop, or a gang of blokes hanging out of a van to ogle a teen. It's just not OK.

The problem is that one persons 'interested look' is another persons 'leering stare'. Doesn't it depend on who is being looked at and how they might feel about the person who is doing the looking?

The archetypal middle aged bloke boss looking at his young female colleague might well be received differenlty to when a young man looks at his female colleague - especially if she is also interested in him.

There is an older bloke I know who is in the leering perv category. I dont like him but have to deal with from time to time in business.

On the other hand, I know a lot more younger men in business who go out of their way to make it really obvious they are not looking at women they work with - for fear of being sued. It has reached ridiculous proportions in the USA which is far more litigious. They play it safe for fear of being labelled as a 'leering perv' and look at the floor or the wall as women pass them in the corridor. It really does happen.

MillyrR - men no longer wear Edwardian style bathng costumes because they are jolly uncomfortable compared to modern lycra swimming trunks. Same as women no longer wear Edwardian style long dresses. Ermm... and I think men know that women are not looking at their nipples.

There has been a fashion for shorts for the last few years. Shorts are more revealing than skirts as they both reveal the legs but also reveal the shape of the bottom; skirts generally don't drawn attention to the bottom because the material is not drawn in underneath it unless it is a very clingy fabric.

Yet men haven't gone on about how women wear these shorts in order to get men to look at them. I am assuming that is because men also wear shorts.

Also, is the reason men no longer wear Edwardian style bathing suits because they want women to ogle their nipples at the beach or while swimming?

"Well I understand the 'buy the product, get the girl' nonsense in advertising. Honestly, its insulting to men. I do wonder why advertising executives continue to portray men as stupid slavering dogs who will buy anything with a woman attached to it."

agree wholeheartedly.
I wish there were more normal men out there campaigning against this stuff instead of just the MRA types who see it as proof that men are in fact more oppressed than women.

I really hate men who look you slowly up and down. It's just revolting.

I also used to hate the staring when i was young, and it makes me feel queasy when i see men leering at schoolgirls now. It's just so pervy.

I can manage to look at attractive people without leering and making them feel uncomfortable perfectly easily. Why so many men are incapable of this is beyond me.

But for anyone to presume a women dress purely for men's gaze or attraction is flawed..

[shocked] at level of beardy prejudice...I like well groomed beards shows a man cares about his appearance as much as a man who shaves, I also like the rugged few days growth look I don't mind the bristly face..

I look at men - I love the summer that said I'm a married woman ...

No matter if we all wore sack-cloths and socks with sandals men and women would eye each other up...

Women dress the way they do for various reasons, sometimes fashion or peer-pressure maybe self-esteem or to attract a partner, could be comfort or to make a statement but no matter the reason ..some bloke will look at you

Beenbeta, like I say, looking and hooking up isn't the problem at all. It's a lovely part of life, and neccessary. The trouble comes when some men assume - she's looking for male attention, that means she wants ME to comment, grope etc.

Well I understand the 'buy the product, get the girl' nonsense in advertising. Honestly, its insulting to men. I do wonder why advertising executives continue to portray men as stupid slavering dogs who will buy anything with a woman attached to it.

As for the rest of the discussion here, all I can say is you are never going to stop people looking at the opposite sex and you just have to accept that. Its what gets us from one generation to the next.

Unless of course you're aged between about 14 and 25, and have something that is deemed attractive in the prevailing culture, then you can quite literally feel the male gaze on you every time you leave the house. Very unsettling.

Looking is not the problem.
Leering is.
Chatting up is not a problem.
Harrassing is.

In that context it doesn't matter if you wear a short skirt to attract men. You can attract every man on the street, but being attracted to a woman doesn't come with a set of entitlements.

Here's an explanation of the male gaze

It a nutshell it's the idea that things are shaped by the way men see the world, so in this context what we wear is influenced by the way hetero men see us rather than how women do. And that the way we see ourselves is shaped by the way men see us, as popular culture is shaped by the way men see the world, rather than the way women do.

Its a difficult thing to put in a nutshell.

But it not to do with individual men looking at individual women per se.

Nor is it to do with individual women consciously thinking 'now what shall I wear so that men like it'.

It's more a concept.

Its the whole business of the 'male gaze' that people are talking about that confuses me. I mean, what is it? I look at people and sometimes they wear short skirts. Should I not look at people in short skirts?

Don't men know that they can look at women any time they like?

It is how they look that counts.

Strange question. I don't know what you're on about particularly BeenBeta but we were talking about how what we wear isn't necessarily worn with the intention of pulling men. You know, sometimes we just wear clothes.....without any intentions.....

Sorry. I'm a bit confused. When are men allowed to look at women?

Not that I'm especially bothered. Just wondered for the sake of my DSs really?

I don't have a beard.

Laziness
Being in a job that doesn't need you to be cleanshaven
Keeping warm & difficulty shaving eg long sailing trips, struggling across the arctic
Religion
Erm
That's it?