Sunday Times: "Extreme feminists" have used moderate feminism as a Trojan horse

re only some of her complaints being upheld - the chances are that only some of her complaints will have had evidence because there will only have been witnesses some of the time. If you were being harassed you would experience a series of incidents only some of which you would be in a position to prove. Given that there were still enough in this case to prove ongoing harassment, trying to suggest that the woman was discredited because not all were upheld seems rather like grasping at straws.

from my side I have posted an opinion that you guys obviously don't like and you all are attacking me personally because my opinion differs! what is this, a cult?

Becausse nowhere have I indicated what I think about that value system for boys Heroine, but you have assumed that I can't see it might be a bad thing.

"you are against women feeling like they are sexually dirty and can see why that is a bad value system to convey, but can't see why its a bad value system to convey to boys?"

HTH

I'd use it

its a shame that there is not a 'slaps head in disbelief' smiley

Heroine, people are reading your posts carefully and responding precisely to them. You, on the other hand, are repeatedly ignoring or ridiculing our questions.

Hitler and enjoying feeling like a fuck toy?

What is this guy on?

why would you feel the need to ask me why I would think that you can't see that its a bad value system for boys?

Heroine, you're the one who's not listening tbh.

"so... you are against women feeling like they are sexually dirty and can see why that is a bad value system to convey, but can't see why its a bad value system to convey to boys? "

Why would you think I can't see that it's a bad value system to convey to boys?

why do people feel the need to wander into random threads and start telling you about their sexual proclivities?
it's like sitting harmlessly in your office and having some weird bloke wander in with a paper about bat fellatio

that's what I mean you aren't listening to what I say and waiting for things to ridicule - its a bit cruel .. oh and 'you are just like hitler'

We're always this prickly when someone comes on and lectures us about sexual politics and IGNORES the facts of the case - which is that overall, her complaint of sexual harrassment was upheld and the bat paper should be seen in that context.

Have you ever been harrassed or bullied at work Heroine? Because I have, and I can tell you, that sometimes, when you hve been through weeks or months of stress from harrassment, the straw that can break the camel's back, can be something quite tiny and seemingly insignificant - something that in normal times, when you are feeling strong and happy and fine with the world, you would brush off or not even notice.

You have once again ignored the ongoing harrassment which this woman was suffering, preferring to concentrate on the straw.

ooh I love it, she says random rude and illogical stuff and if we argue or are rude back we're 'prickly'!

I have my bingo card out in readiness.

btw i agree with loaded and nuts and daily sport being bad, but I don't agree with internet porn being bad. I think that not all the value errors you allege are there with internet porn - that said I sometimes enjoy being a fuck toy

so... you are against women feeling like they are sexually dirty and can see why that is a bad value system to convey, but can't see why its a bad value system to convey to boys?

not all the complaints of harassment were upheld - only the bat paper one there were more accusations made than upheld which suggests a scatter-gun approach on behalf of the accuser. are you lot always this prickly?

oh you missed off a bit HB:

'Don't come on the feminist topic and lecture us on sexual politics, it's unwise.'

Wrong Hermione.
And I suspect you know it. The harassment was ongoing, the Fruit bat was just one incident. Nothing on it's own, of course, but it wasn't an isolated incident. the media likes to jump on the silliest aspect and extrapolate from that. As do you, it seems.

Damn, couldn't stop myself, that post will probably be deleted because of the personal insult at the end, so will re-post without the insult ():

"I think is a very damaging message being given out to boys everywhere by an increasingly female media..."

I am actually far more worried aoubt the damaging message being given out to girls everywhere, that they are merely fuck-toys. Magazines like Nuts, Loaded, the DAily Sport, etc, are displayed alongside mainstream magazines with women on the covers being shown as nothing more than fuck-toys.

"If we bring up boys who hate themselves from puberty onwards rather than seeing their desires as being perfectly nice natural and normal then we are building self-hating women hating monsters"

I think we are bringing up girls who hate themselvs and boys who hate them, because the porn culture is all about sex being something men do to women, not something men and women do to and for each other. It is not boys who are being told that their desires are not natural and normal, it's girls, who on the one hand are told that they should be permanently "up for it" and on the other, if they are, they're sluts who deserve "everything they get" if they are raped.

ooh weird a bitch about understanding! - i am just saying that adding exaggerations to try to illustrate why the incident without the exaggerations is bad is silly - its like saying 'you should hand someone for shoplifting sweets I mean what if instead of sweets it was a shotgun and instead of eating it, she blasted the shopkeeper - you wouldn't think letting her off was ok then would you .. would you' its just dumb.

Please learn the difference between being accused of something and having a complaint against you upheld, Heroine.

"I think is a very damaging message being given out to boys everywhere by an increasingly female media..."

I am actually far more worried aoubt the damaging message being given out to girls everywhere, that they are merely fuck-toys. Magazines like Nuts, Loaded, the DAily Sport, etc, are displayed alongside mainstream magazines with women on the covers being shown as nothing more than fuck-toys.

"If we bring up boys who hate themselves from puberty onwards rather than seeing their desires as being perfectly nice natural and normal then we are building self-hating women hating monsters"

I think we are bringing up girls who hate themselvs and boys who hate them, because the porn culture is all about sex being something men do to women, not something men and women do to and for each other. It is not boys who are being told that their desires are not natural and normal, it's girls, who on the one hand are told that they should be permanently "up for it" and on the other, if they are, they're sluts who deserve "everything they get" if they are raped.

Don't come on the feminist topic and lecture us on sexual politics, you nob-end.

Actually she made several claims that were unfounded. Please don't join the 'he must be harassing if he is accused of harassing'

rofl @ Heroine thinking Elephants said he had shown the paper to a 13 year old.
She really needs to learn to read more carefully if she is going to be capable of following the discussions on a site like Mumsnet.

It's quite basic grammar isn't it, the difference between a question and a statement? What do they teach them in school these days?

Not really my first post - I forgot my last login and password - I work in a uni and have just been in another case where a coleague has been disciplined for supposedly showing pornography to another member of staff, when in fact a screensaver inadvertently picked up an image of an artistic nude from his my pictures folder - in this case I also know the person who saw the image and she was encouraged to make it into a complaint about pornography because the person who had the image was a man - then it got expanded - someone saw him watching a video with children in it. I am disgusted by this as I know him (or did when he was at work) and he's a nice guy and his only crime is liking art and its been terrible for him. I have worked for youth groups and seen 'well-meaning' youth workers victimise boys and treat all of their flirting as 'evidence' or near psychopathy and its really terrifying for them