Sunday Times: "Extreme feminists" have used moderate feminism as a Trojan horse

Why would you think you had the right to "tease" someone who is in a working relatinship with you and can't escape from your presence because s/he is at work with you?

What an odd thing to want to do.

Are you a man Heroine?

Because seriously, most women would be absolutely mortified to know that their "light flirting" was being received with distaste by a male colleague. Most women don't have such a strongly developed sense of entitlement, that they would even want to carry on with light flirting. And most women don't believe they have the right to flirt with someone, who has made it absolutely clear that they would rather not be flirted with by them.

Your knowledge of his discomfort is the boundary. If his job demanded that he deliver to your house 40 hrs a week that exacerbates it.

Seriously, Heroine, you must know this stuff. Everyone does.

also collecting data on an individual and not communicating discomfort and then making a string of complaints is also a form of harassment in itself - its not harassment just because you feel harassed if there is no intent - if I talk to a cycle courier am I flirting or is it harassment - I can see it as flirting so I'm not harassing - he can feel it as harassment, which doesn't make my intention change. If I know I'm making him uncomfortable and I keep doing it to tease him, and my intention is still flirting, where is the boundary between clumsy flirting and harassement?

X posts with loads there. My apology still stands.

you're fairly basic.

Good night SSAM

First off, sorry, my last post was a bit harsh to you Heroine.

Re you showing magazines to your male colleagues: It's unprofessional of you, but probably no worse, especially if you are friends outside of work. But if your colleague had at any point expressed discomfort, or asked you to stop, and you continued, that'd be harassment.

I've never been accused of harassment out of a clear blue sky, while going about my legitimate, non confrontational, considerate to others, professional, way. But I have on occasion been asked to drop a particular subject, and I have always respected that.

If your colleague thinks you're harrassing him/her, and tells you so, and asks you to stop whatever it is you're doing that constitutes harassment in his/ her eyes, and you don't stop, then you are harassing him/ her, whether you think you are or not.

The harasser doesn't get to decide whether it's harassment or not. The victim of harassment does.

That's fairly basic.

this is incredibly boring. Goodnight all.

oh beautiful! A neat sidestep into 'lets go back and talk about the structure of the argument and the way in which people are saying things...

yup.
Heroine plays the 'poor little me, they're all attacking me' card
so Seth plays the 'well you did start it' card.

So we are onto 'you are a child' insults.. excellent work!

no i don't agree - your colleague would only take you to court if he thought i had been harassing him - whether I had or not (and in my example I have not) is not relevant to whether a complaint is made.

Ooops sorry, my mistake, meant 'overreacting'

I never thought I'd type the words "bat fellatio paper incident"

Grow up Heroine. Engage at an adult level (which includes reading more than the headlines in a tabloid) or you can't really blame us if it all goes a bit over your head.

Heroine, your colleague woould only take you to court, if you had been continually harrassing him in the previous weeks and/ or months.

You keep ignoring the context of harrassment in which this bat fellatio paper incident took place. Why?

oh and 'walking' seriously get some help for your issues about 'overeating' I really don't know where you get that from..

I know! Lets have a long discussion about the way I say things! Brilliant! There is a whiff of 'no you started it' about your post - I do think that in general the posts here are very much about people being silly about a topic that is really more complicated than 'ooh what a creepy guy ooh he must have done it' it just smacks of hatefulness

You haven't posted a particularly original, or well informed opinion, Heroine. It's more like 'silly women overreating again'. There is more to it than that. Obviously.

oh yes i agree.. and i have been harassed at work fyi... but I still think that it is ridiculous that a paper about animal sex has been seen as almost equivalent to showing someone something about human sex - especially when in cosmo and MC there are loads of articles about fellatio and oral sex that I regularly show to male friends and I would be mortified if they collected it as evidence of a long campaign of harassement and then took me to court.

no, we're arguing with you because we disagree with you, and we were rude to you because you were rude to us - your first words on this thread were 'You silly people.'

Can I give you some friendly advice about how to engage in discussions, on the internet or elsewhere? If you want to have a constructive discussion, you will find that people respond in kind. Start off by insulting them and they may insult you; ignore and ridicule their questions and they might just ignore and ridicule yours. If, on the other hand, you engage politely and constructively, you will have an enjoyable and interesting discussion and may learn a lot.

HTH