'A woman who drinks to get drunk is deliberatly endagering herself and inviting rape' Oh my Gosh

what happened when they found out he was the party organiser?

I like group sex. I have had quite a lot of group sex. I am actually (despite being, you know, a woman, and one who likes to drink and have casual sex with lots of different men) quite aware of the difference between consensual sex and rape.
On one occasion at a swingers party, I was engaging in group sex and an extra bloke tried to join in, without invitation. I told him to go away. He persisted. The other men told him to go away and after his third attempt one of the men had to go and get the party organiser and have the extra bloke thrown out of the party.

And no, I am not going to ask for that post to be deleted in the morning, as I don't feel that liking group sex is anything to hide and be ashamed of.

Canada have it right here - their campaign is "don't be that guy":

The ?Don?t be that Guy? behavioural marketing campaign is aimed at the offender. Historically, sexual assault campaigns focused on how to prevent being assaulted. This campaign?s message is simple: Sex without consent is sexual assault. The advertisements use very graphic language and images to communicate to their intended target audience, males between the ages of 18 to 24.

Superintendent Danielle Campbell of the EPS Criminal Investigations Division says, ?A recent study out of the United Kingdom involving 18-25 year old males revealed that 48 per cent of the males didn?t consider it rape if a woman is too drunk to know what was going on. This study validates the statistics we have here in Edmonton.?

Pictures here.

I've been dipping in and out of this thread; am intrigued by the SA 'Real Men Don't Rape' campaign. Have just found an old article from 2006 saying that the UK Home Office ran its own version of this - i.e. an ad campaign telling (young) men to take responsibility for their behaviour.

Anyone recall seeing this?

I saw one of those 'I got into a fake taxi' ads just this week and have been thinking about sending a complaint/ suggesting a better alternative to the powers that be, so I was surprised to see that they apparently did this some time ago. I wonder why it's not part of their campaign today.

We still seem to be considering this idea that a drunk woman is at risk of being raped and a drunk man who has sex with a woman is at risk of a rape accusation. The two do not match up.

An extremely drunk woman is at risk of rape. An extremely drunk man who has sex with a woman is at risk of raping someone.

In addition to this, an extremely drunk woman is at risk of having to report that she has been raped, and an extremely drunk man is at risk of a rape accusation.

To keep wording it (as more than one poster has done) that a drunk man is at risk of a rape accusation implies that:

1. The extremely drunk man who rapes a woman because his ability to interpret a woman's consent or capability to consent due to his drunken state has not really raped anyone and/or the accusation is false.

1. The man has raped someone, but that is insignificant to his following state of mind/moral sense/ordinary life. It doesn't matter to him if he is a rapist; it only matters if he is accused of rape.

Both of those ideas are bizarre.

It seems simple to me. If you are too drunk to drive you are also too drunk to be able to make accurate judgements about consent.

I also question the idea that there is shame in sex.

We're living in 2010, who feels ashamed of having a fuck? So ashamed that they will go to the police and submit to an internal examination and make a false statement? Funny way to express shame.

The issue here is not primarily alcohol, Desi. None whatsoever involved in my attack. It was 5 in the afternoon and I was walking home.

Alcohol is AN issue, I'll grant you.

But you're putting forward the view that all men are beasts Desi. As if they can't help raping a woman if she's drunk and has flirted with them and they're drunk too (but not too drunk to get an erection).

That's a view which is grounded in the idea that men aren't really human beings with morals and ethics, but just beasts. Waht an insulting view of men. Even when we're drunk, most of us are reasonably capable of not doing something really very unethical - we might do stupid things like losing our keys, or snogging someone we don't fancy - but we don't murder anyone, or burgle their house, or assault them. Why assume that most men are so lacking in moral fibre that they simply can't help themselves raping someone?

ISNT, I am merely trying to balance the view that all men are beasts, and all women are blameless.

When alcohol is involved, there is confusion and shame. The shame can often lead to a charge of rape, when in fact, the sex was as consensual as two inebriated people can gauge it .. at the time.

It is rather difficult for a woman to rape a man, for obvious physical reasons. However, I have certainly been in the company of women over the years who, in drink, would certainly do so if they could.

The issue here, primarily, is alcohol, and the manner in which people deal with it.

desi...I think it rather unfortunate timing of mine and your posts, but I am struggling a bit here with what you said

Past tense for me, Goat

blamed being the operative word

I know better now, but it took a while to get there (by myself and with the help of MN)

I don't get into the "one type of rape is worse thn another" but that must have been particularly terrifying, goat

At least I knew my attacker wasn't going to kill me

Desiderata when you say "take advantage of" what exactly do you mean?

Sex is a two-way street and your post seems to put the woman as passive once she has "flirted" IYSWIM.

I was your classic 'plucked off the street', AF.

And I blamed myself too.

I don't think it's particularly noble, to not penetrate someoen else's body when they don't want you to.

I think it's just normal. But that's because I have quite a high opinion of men and don't think that not being a rapist makes them particularly noble.

Ah, but in response to your reply to me, dittany, that's not what I'm saying.

I am merely saying that when alcohol is involved, caution is necessary.

I simply don't buy this notion, in the modern age, that young women are always and completely beyond reproach. whatever their actions. They have responsibilities too.

If you are suggesting that an extremely drunk girl, who is flirtatious and suggestive, simply should not be taken advantage of by a similarly drunken bloke who's probably picked up the 'wrong' message, then that is to assume that all men should be noble, and all women should be protected.

Nice thought, but totally impractical, and hopelessly one-sided.

I was drunk at the time.

I didn't invite rape though.

I even had social chit-chat with him a few months later, when we crossed paths out and about

Go figure

I did that too

I also blamed myself (date rape situation, I didn't struggle)

I didn't report..I wouldn't have been believed

Bit of a headfuck.

Thanks all for your kind words.

I had repressed the whole thing for a long time.

hope you are ok, saying this stuff "out loud" can be a trauma in itself sometimes

IWNCNWAG - I wanted to point you to this thread where other MNers shared experiences of sexual assault.

I second what AF said. Be kind to yourself.

Thanks Anyfucker.

I really really do appreciate your thoughts.

Goat, you are not the keeper of your assaulter's subsequent sexual behaviour.

You mustn't feel guilty about not reporting.

I am sorry you went through that.

I've been sexually assaulted and didn't report it, Dittany.

And I only regret not reporting it because it may have stopped the same thing happening to some other poor girl. So I regret that.

But this thread reinforces that apart from that, I was right to not report it, and to just forget the whole damn thing (as much as I could). Rather than relive it to someone like the OP's uncle (apologies OP).

I never talk about it at all. I hope this clarifies my stance and isn't too garbled.