Mick Hucknall apologises to 1000 women he slept with

Blimey, if I woke up next to Mick Hucknall I wouldn't speak to him. I'd get the hell out and vow never to drink that much again.

The thing is, this sort of violence is normalised and presented as something that women just have to put up with. People like your relative express regret that the violence happens, but just don't think it's important enough to come straight out and say it's unacceptable - because for them, it isn't, really. It's not nice, but it's soemthing that has to be tolerated. And this attitude extends to an awful lot of abuse, domestic violence and rape IMO.

OK, HerBeatitude, I hope you understand that it was a genuine question.
I can at least consider your general view that women's sufferings are not as bad as men's, because, although this is not about rape as such, I have witnessed a family member having her concerns about an (verbally and physically though not sexually abusive) partner poo-poohed by her own MOTHER.
Apparently, when this family member told her own mother that this guy had-in an all too frequent fit of temper- threatened to, 'Punch the fing lights out of his brother-in-law (in a clear attempt to frighten my relative), the mother's reaction was along the lines of 'he's having a bad day' and just to let it 'pass'.
Which horrified me but made me wake up to the fact that with some women, men do definitely come first.
I can't bring myself to speak to the mother now -not out of choice, anyway, only polite words, that is all.

Of course it has occurred to me Marantha. But i have dismissed it as an explanation, for the reasons that Dittany cites and also because I don't walk around with my eyes closed (anymore) - I realise that rape, far from being unacceptable, is considered an occupational hazard of being a woman and so when we complain about it, an awful lot of people think that to send a rapist to prison is so much worse than a woman putting up with rape (because men's lives and sufferings are so much more worthy of empathy and pity than women's and anyway, rape's not that bad), that juries bend over backwards to find a rapist not guilty, however tenous his defence.

The fact of being raped, is simply not seen as such a big deal. And I think the pornification of our society has actually increased that indifference to the suffering caused by rape - women are constantly being presented in porn as being permanently up for it, but not particularly enjoying it at the same time and if that is how you learn about how sex is (as it is for many boys and young men now), then that will also serve to distance you from having any empathy with a woman who has been raped.

FGS, 85% of rapes aren't even reported. That in itself should tell us how acceptable rape is.

The conviction rate is not so low in other countries though. I used to work with an anti rape organisation and often the police would not collect the evidence that was there, or would lose it. We always told women to keep a copy of everything if possible. The CPS often misread evidence and drop cases as a result, I even saw the prosecution in court fail to call key witnesses or would not let the woman tell her story properly. I was really shocked by the way women were treated by the system and would never report now if I was in that position myself.

You are assuming that the low conviction rate is down to acceptability of rape, when, in fact, other factors may come into play.

HerBeatitude. Has it ever occurred to you that the reason that 96% do not end in a conviction is NOT because rape is acceptable but because of difficulty proving it?

If a couple are in a pre-existing sexual relationship and living at close quarters and the woman claims she was raped, I, for one, would think, 'She's telling the truth',but proving it to the level required for a conviction in a court of law may be difficult to achieve.

Has it never occurred to you that the conviction rate may not be down to acceptability of rape, but the fact that it is hard to prove?

HB I think you've nailed it with this:
" Rape occurs in a climate in which men are represented as getting one over on women if women sleep with them. Mick Hucknall may be tapping into that cultural assumption. "

Sorry that should say 94%.

And also, women being forced into sex isn't unacceptable in our society.

On the contrary, it's quite common and accepted. Especially where there is a pre-existing sexual relationship between the woman who is forced, and the man who is forcing.

Most rapes go unreported, precisely because it's so acceptable. Of the ones which do get reported, 96% do not end in a rape conviction, because it's not unacceptable.

How nice it would be if forcing women to ahve sex they didn't want, were indeed as outrageous and unacceptable as you suggest.

No I thnk you're missing my point Marantha.

I'm focusing on men's behaviour. You prefer to focus on women's.

iTigress. 'Woman plied with drink'. .
This is terrible. I think that no woman should ever, ever go out by herself again.
Their little minds obviously cannot obviously refuse a kind gentleman's offer of drink- for they are far, far too polite to say no and would not like to give offence-and are obviously at risk of being taken advantage of by a bounder.
From now on all unmarried women should be chaperoned when taking part in social interaction (s).

What are you on about HerBeatitude?
See the difference is this:
Women consenting to sex (even if it is with a man who may not like her)=ACCEPTABLE to society, the law and anybody with an ounce of common sense.

Women being forced into sex =UNACCEPTABLE to society, the law and anybody with an ounce of common sense.

Jaysus, why is this worthy of further comment?

If women want to be used by a lothario, it is their choice. Not mine. The only time I feel it is for others to intervene is if there is force.
Perhaps, HerBeatitude, you think women are incapable of making up their minds properly about who they sleep with and thus be chaperoned when meeting a gentleman? After all, they can't possibly make up their own minds, can they?

I'm quite interested in Marantha's extreme reaction to ITigress's post actually.

It's like it's really offensive to put rape on a continuum of oppressive sexual behaviour - like rape and rapists are totally "the other", totally different from other forms of sexual oppression/ oppressors.

Is it? Surely it's just part of a larger picture of how sexual relations are conducted or represented as being conducted - look at that mainstream advertisement recently, for the product which escapes me (so it wasn't that good an ad) which had as its storyline a woman being tricked into having sex with someone she wouldn't otherwise have had sex with at that particular time. What is that if it's not predatory behaviour and that's presented as if it's a bit of a larf. Rape occurs in a climate in which men are represented as getting one over on women if women sleep with them. Mick Hucknall may be tapping into that cultural assumption.

And also, immediately she started talking about the women having consented, immediately shifting the debate on to women consenting to be used badly, rather than on why men would want to use them badly. Interesting.

Right. I was talking about this with a friend of mine last night (we're all from/in Manchester) and she knows a girl who knows a girl who pooed on MH. Apparently.

I'm not sure if he was into that kind of thing, or if it was because he cracked onto her and then passed out. The details are a little sketchy but why let that ruin a good story?

Yes, custy

Not read the whole thread.

The only reason he is apologising is to remind people that he once had a career as he probably has an album coming out or a 'best of' for christmas.

The man has always revolted me. He just wants column inches.

Fuckwit.

ANYONE who has ever lived or worked in manchester, knows Mick Hucknall is an arrogant tosser

I agre with you ITigress
There are some men who get turned off when they sense that their partner is turned on during sex. Abusive hUsbands do that, sometimes, definitely punters who use prostitutes. Not allowing women pleasure is sometimes a goal for men.
Yes, the woman is complicit, but it's horribly woman-hating. ANd ususally she has been ground down. Not a far cry from rape at all.

I snorted out my tea @ "But bloody hell Mick H is a child frightener. Imagine snogging that gargoyle"
There are a few prominent ginger men I fancy, ex was ginger, so I'm not anti ginger, but I agree with this verdict.

It's the whole gatekeeping idea isn't it. Women gatekeep sex, and have to give it up to men. They don'T have inner lives of their own. What has he done wrong that he thinks he needs to apologize for?

Marantha - sorry if my post hit a wrong note - 'the most offensive thing I have ever read on mumsnet' though, really? This is a lighthearted thread, and tbh I don't want to get into a debate, but I'll try to explain why I personally feel that way (as you remind me I have a right to)!

I think men are in such a position of power sexually that there are sexual grey areas, eg in the case of statutory rape, where the female has technically agreed but it's still legally 'rape' as she (in theory) doesn't have full understanding of the man's intent. If you think you're allowing a man intimate access to you in a trusting situation and he's actually taking advantage of you and has manipulated you into sleeping with him, it becomes something more sinister. I suppose a more obvious example is a woman plied with drink, who has consensual sex she bitterly regrets in the morning.

This kind of man has no interest in whether his partner wants to have sex with him or not. The difference between him and a rapist is hat he doesn't use violence to get it. I'm not saying it's rape, I'm saying it's a step below and is gross and horrible.

I

Haha, len we're gonna bring a femmo thread into disrepute.

Manchester (where else?), circa 1986-1989 (I dunno). Christmas Eve or maybe New Year, the International Club, where he was playing. Stopped me in the corridor and basically wouldn't let me past. I was a bit of a fox back then. But femmo enough to sniff out desperation.

Joan Armatrading: heh heh. we are OLD.