The demonisation of single mothers.

Sorry- the reason why humans are here is to make more little humans. Nature dosn't give a crap if you are married, single, monogamous or polygamous. All nature gives a toss about is replicating it's genes in the most evolutionary advantageous way possible.

As long as I have a womb I know that it's my right to procreate. The reason why humans are here is make more little humans. It's more of a biological impulse tahn anything else. The rest is just cultural and formed over eons of religion etc.

FFS all those people who say it's a child's right to have their father present, have nothing to say when asked how they would ensure that a father who choses to have sweet FA to do with his child, should be dealt with.

All these reactionary ideas, are so driven by the patriarchal media aren't they - so everyone thinks that the major probelm of the day, is bitch-harpy women who either have babies without fathers or deny loving fathers proper contact with their children, when in fact a much bigger problem, is disconnected fathers who simply choose not to be involved.

My DC's father simply doesn't engage. He pays no maintenane (and if he did, the CSA decrees that the level of financial responsibilty for his children is £2.50 per week per child) he never visits them, he never phones them and he has only recently made himself available for SKYPE calls. How the hell are all those arseholes saying my kids have the right to have their father's presence, proposing to enforce that right? The mysogynist media is so good at framing the debate as if it is reasonable - talking about children's rights in order to attack women, while refusing to talk about them when we're discussing men's behaviour. Pah.

I feel I should clarify about my "Manic pursuit to have a child" comment. I meant, specifically, women who think that surrogacy is a reasonable option, or women who have tried and failed again and again at IVF to the point where the stress is wrecking their relationship, or a woman past menopause, that type of thing. I think that biological heritage is over-emphasized. Adopting a child would bring just as much happiness, although I understand why biological heritage is desirable under the current system.

ISNT- oh absolutely not a sex offender!(although noone can stop him from procreating ) I'll be honest with you, I think it's the right of every female to give birth (within reason -see above!). ANd I think that person who claims that a particular female (or group of females) has no right to give birth should be regarded with deep deep suspicion.

It's a written right. The right to procreate or not to procreate regardless of marital status.

I've read it before as the right to enjoy a family life, but carn't remember where.

There was a scientist bloke on the radio ages ago and I didn't hear him but my dad told me about it - he was saying that it's ridiculous to vilify young mothers, they are simply following their biological programming ie they are in their most fertile years and all of their hormones are telling them to breed. sounds a bit crass put like that but YKWIM. People have powerful urges to procreate, it's a bit silly to pretend we're all robots. Or to pretend that having children when you're physically at the best point to cope with it and the demands that follow is in some way wrong.

I wonder (getting random now) whether rates of postnatal psychological problems have increased as women have had their children later? I had terrible problems and I think a lot of it was to do with having been free and single for so many years that the change when it happened was really hard. Maybe younger people who are still growing and changing and less set in their ways are better at adapting to the changes a new baby brings?

Why is having a child a human right?

What do people mean when they say it's a human right to have a child? I can imagine lots of circs where it wouldn't be a human right IMO eg a convicted sex offender adopting one.

I'd never thought of that, Lenin- about the over-importance our current culture places on biological heritage. It's money-driven of course, the fertility industry is huge, as well as other industries that cash in on maternity and babies.
The Japanese are bad for this preoccupation with biological heritage. Adoption is very rare here. Couples prefer to go childless. Although I think it's healthier to not mind being childless than to get caught up in this manic pursuit for a child at any cost that some women go on.

And all of this bashing of ytoung mums. Well it makes me sick when young mums are in prime child-bearing age. Older mums have far more risks of downs children etc. Tis cultural and driven by capitalism.

Of course it is a human right to have a child. In some cultures which have not relied so extensively on the nuclear family such as tribal families then this was not seen as a shocking thing to believe.

The nuclear family is not all that; otherwise why would there be so many single parents? 50% marriages end in divorce; a significant proportion of those will have kids.

IMO it is an honour to be seen as a threat. I proves that there is something good to be threatened by.

I'm feeling a bit upset because a women who I used to be friends with has started to blank me and I'm sure it's because I'm a single mum. She thinks I'm after her bloke. yawn. I liek him as a friend but i'm not attracted to him and I have no intention of ''stealing'' him.

I agree with you about it being a human right to have a child

[although I am fiercly against surrogacy- the thought of people renting a woman's womb makes me feel ill- and I'm not too keen on the entire fertility industry either, which makes so much money out of so much misery; but this is another topic really.

But aside from that, yes, I think it's a human right to have a child

Yes, it's years ago now, when I pointed out in a thread about single parents that it was a human right to have a child, no matter what the circumstances, it was pointed out that it was a human right to have a family, meaning two parents and a child.

I didn't plan to get pregnant in the casual relationship, it was a shock but I wanted to keep the baby. I told him he was free to go and when he appeared to be battling with it I tried to encourage him to take a role in her life but it proved pointless as she got older and he moved on with his life.

I was in my early thirties so perhaps it this was a factor in my experience of being accepted.

LOL @ since you turned
I'm the same

I don't believe that the 'respect' element is inherent in West Indian/African cultures, so no TFP. I do think that if fathers were properly pursued for their financial contributions (and got some kind of financial penalty for stopping work the moment they are tracked down by the CSA - which seems to be quite popular judging by a lot of the posts in the Lone Parents forum) then a lot of erstwhile fathers might be a bit more careful re contraception.

It's funny since I turned I am shocked daily by the attitudes of others. Just walked into the lounge and DH had 'carry on....pile of crap' on, I nearly broke my neck turning it over before the DCs were showered in the misogynist shite!! Poor DH thought I had just seen a spider with the scream!!

thanks TheFeministParent.. the voice of reason (who knows I'm not really that calm... )

what am I thinking... I only frequent the feminist topic thesedays. I forget what the real world is like, and that people still have these bizarre views. Luckily this section invites the occasional visitor such as BillHicks

Christmas.....I guess it depends whether you 'accidentally' got pregnant or not, I wouldn't think it was at all right to force someone into being a parent.

did someone on MN really tell you your family wasn't valid because there wasn't a man christmaseve ???

LB....Don't you think the 'respect' element that is inherent in African/West Indian families is undermined by so called absent fathers, the ultimate lack of respect.

I think if fathers had to pay for their children, ie at least 1/3, then maybe they would start using condoms.

Sakura....I know you are a calm and wonderful feminist but I am wondering if there is any point engaging with this poster. He's on the wind up, noone can be that ignorant, ignoring the fact that women are and have been distinctly unwelcome both directly and indirectly in such 'dangerous' jobs. I, of course, may argue that most women aren't too bloody stupid to obey rules and think about safety before pissing off up a ladder that isn't secure.

Not engaging with you BillHicks.

I think if you are a reasonably financially secure single mother, people think you're brave and a bit of a heroine rather than responsible for all society's ill.

For example, when you look at the 'facts' about black boys in our society, the issue that many of them are brought up by single mothers is raised time and again as a reason for their disproportionate representation in the crime stats. As though if they had a dad around, that would magically make them decent upstanding members of society. When in reality it's about poverty, not the lack of a father.