why is it so wrong to call yourself an equalist instead of a feminist?

If you are a feminist, everything you do and every choice you make is informed by the impact that your caction or choice will have on women or on society's perception of women. That's why you can't say "I am a feminist - I CHOOSE to be a submissive wife" for example. Because your choice is helping to legitimize the concept of a submissive wife, which in turn helpt to maintain the patriarchy, and the inherently mysogenist mind set in society.

The term "third wave" feminism etc. Is this a bit like New Labour. Is it splitting and weakening and attempting to rebrand and ditch the heritage of feminism? I prefer just feminism under one all-encompassing banner. I agree with the concept of no-wave feminism

It's time for no-wave feminism

this is a great thread, people disagreeing & talking & listening.

'The Labour party hasn't been a socialist party for donkeys years. I'm not entirely sure why you keep bringing it up claig.'

Ok so it is not socialists rebranding themselves, but the Labour Party rebranding itself. I bring it up because people always ask the question should feminism rebrand itself to remove any possible "negative" image that has been ascribed to it by its opponents/ The most obvious example of rebranding is the use of the latest term "progressive" by the Labour Party. I use that as an example of failure and why feminism should not rebrand itself.

Quite so.
Socialism is an economic and philosophical movement, not a political party.

Unprune, good for you. People should be proud of their beliefs. I guess it is the leadership who change the name to New Labour and are constantly rebranding themselves, not the socialaist voters.

I don't think I could be prouder of being a socialist (not a NewLabourite).

Depends what kind of feminist you are. Lots of feminist are socialists. You've not got it wrong Icouldnot.

People who are against feminism will make all sorts of claims, just like those being made against socialism.

'Why is feminism something to be proud of but not socialism?'

you would have to ask the socialists why they feel the need to constantly rebrand themselves and change their image to appeal to the public. Why do they do this? I think it is to hide the truth. I think it is a losing strtategy and an admission that they have something to hide. I think it would be a mistake for feminists to copy the socialists and rebrand feminism.

It's hard to imagine how (broadly) everyone could not benefit from a more equal society. Am quite interested in the studies that go into levels of stress hormones in people in obvious hierarchies and how those effect things like depression in children.

Feminists challenge male power which is why the word frightens male authority. But equalism doesn't really challenge power, because the powerful pretend that they are equalists as well. Equalism dilutes the goals of feminism and diverts it from a real challenge to power. Feminism is not a word to be ashamed of, so why change it?

The socialists are ashamed of being socialists, so they try to hide it by calling themselves progressives or New Labour rather than Labour. But that is a losing strategy because we all know what they are. Unlike socialism, feminism is something to be proud of.

" 'do men suffer under the patriarchy or not?'"

Yes IMO. Under the patriarchy anyone who doesn't want to fit the mould made for him/her suffers. Women suffer disproportionately of course.

ICouldnot - I don't think I've met a feminist that doesn't see that intertwining too. I've seen myths than feminists ignore that though.

Yes I would say men suffer too. Depends on the man to what extent they do. The men who want to do things seen as female are hindered by patriarchy for example. So men benefit from feminism. But they aren't my focus. I would also say white people benefit from less racism, but they would not be my focus either.

the name implies the individual does not believe feminists want equality. which we do.

this is the reason the left is weaker than the right; we insist on dividing ourselves up into these pointless little compartments 'oh, he's a socialist, well i don't know about that, I'm a slightly right-leaning communist, blah blah blah'

we're all on the same side and could easily defeat the bastard greedmongering elite that runs this world but we're too busy bickering with one another to realise. rather than coming up with yet another label, and reason to differentiate yourself from those you basically agree with, why don't you throw your energy into actually helping those people to achieve the aims we share?