Anti Feminist Bingo!!

Anti-feminist is different from Non-feminist, that's why people use them differently.

A non-feminist is simply someone who doesn't have a feminist consciousness and doesn't identify with feminism, but s/he is not necessarily anti the basic ideas.

An anti-feminist is someone who really dislikes the ideas of feminism and tries to counter them whenever they come across them.

Hence people calling you an anti feminist TSH. If it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it's a fucking duck...

Oh, I don't know, I think I would describe myself as anti-war, anti-violence, in fact anti quite a lot of things.

People do use 'non-feminist', but for me, it is a different thing to anti-feminist.

I prefer to talk in terms of opinions or arguments, and describe something said as an anti-feminist view rather than call a person an anti-feminist.

If people say things like 'feminists are anti-men' or 'women (as a group) are not oppressed', they are expressing anti-feminist views.

I don't see why it would upset them to have those views identified as anti-feminist - they have a clear position against feminism, they have presumably engaged their brains and thought their views through - own it, I say.

great point harpy

"Feminists don't let other people have a POV" was designed out of my comment about you posting in an angry style as i have another POV from you. please be assured i was refering to you personally and not to feminists in general.

just as i know that feminists in general don't usually put quotation marks around a quote they made up and attributed to someone else.

Well, it wasn;t entirely off topic as at the time the conversation was around the definition of antifeminsm

you can re-read the thread if you'd like. perhaps you can go over your posting style and see where you could be less confrontational in the future.

goodness I've been staying away but just wanted to say thanks to custardo for clarifying that you aren't anti-feminists

Now I might do a card of some of the best ones today - any objections?

Anti-feminist BIngo # 46

"Feminists don't let other people have a POV"

NO, it's not feminists who run the media: the newspapers, the film industry, TV & advertising; the publishing industry; parliament, government, universities, schools....

why did you come on a light-hearted thread about the of-repeated Anti-feminist phrases women have to put up with in order to explain why poverty is not gendered?

perhaps you should re-read the thread, It might give you an insight as to why you think it is ok to post angrily at me when i have a different POV. make stuff up, and then ignore it and pretend to argue a feminist argument.

still got no idea why I'm arguing the case for feminism on a thread about Anti-Feminist Bingo

what I mean is that wittling down women's oppression to economics is a faulty argument in itself. The feminization of poverty is but a small strand of the overall oppression of women, and to say that the economic oppression of women as a group doesn't exist because some women are better off is illogical. WOmen don't escape being female. They simply have a relatively better time of it.

And remember it is men who are oppressing men, so while some men do suffer under patriarchy-capitalism it isn't women doing the oppressing. WOmen are not the ruling class, men are.

THis means that gender automatically becomes relevant. It's automatically a woman's problem. If men wanted to change the status quo, they could.

Oh, come on, coming onto a thread where people are clearly inclined to feminist viewpoints with:

"i don't agree with the globalised marginalised contruct that women are oppressed. all women."

Is like me going onto a pro-breastfeeding thread and saying:

"I don't agree that breastmilk is better, despite the evidence to the contrary"

"feminism doesn't need to exist and anyone who disagrees with me doesn't understand the status quo"

please do not use quotation marks for a quote that does not exist. When it refers to me anyway. If you want to twist words and infer meanings and invent quotes from other posters, i suppose i can't stop you.

i wasn't implying anything of the sort sakura please don't put words into my mouth.

But it is very easy to see why people wouldnt want to post if they feel they are being attacked rather than feel like they are having a debate and exchanging views.

you clearly said "sorry, I don't get you Custardo.." which i took to mean that you don't understand.

that is in no way a reflection of whether i think you are intelligent enough to understand. it could well have been that i hadn't posted in clear enough terms.

the semantics matter not in the big picture, the big picture. I would love nothing better than to have a debate on this topic but its never long before derisory negative language is used. i defy you to read over your posts and say they were meant in a well meaning balanced way becuase they most certainly were not.

I don't think anyone should feel anxious about posting on any topic. For example, I've just posted in Breastfeeding thread about something I felt strongly about, but I realise it might be controversial. I don't worry about people telling me I'm wrong. I think that's the ethos of MN.
Other than that, if you're worried about not "knowing" anything about feminism, perhaps you could start a thread about some book recommendations.

NiceShoes,
That sentence was about Custardo's deliberate refusal to engage and instead telling me that I was only a feminist because I couldn't understand the way society has been set up.

"You" is used as a generic term, meaning "people" but sorry if you thought I was specifying you personally. I can see why you did because the first part of the post was addressed to you.
As you say, you haven't discussed the feminization of poverty with me, so I had no reason to direct that sentence to you

NiceShoes, I think Sakura was referring to Custardo, and not to you. Don't worry about putting a foot wrong, jump in with both feet, it's not as scary as it seems.

NiceShoes, I don't think she means you! I think she means Custardo.

Sakura,as I said I do not post here much,I do have an interest and I do lurk a lot.I feel I do not perhaps know enough e.g Feminization of Poverty(I am open to knowing more ). Also, I said having observed some of the scraps I do find it bit scary here.

I really do not understand your remark to me:

I do think you're scraping the bottom of the barrel when your argument is reduced to: "feminism doesn't need to exist and anyone who disagrees with me doesn't understand the status quo"

OMGI am so confused.I said no such thing,I have said I find the name calling off putting. Nowhere on this thread have I said that,and you even put quotation marks around it as if I did actually say it.If I misunderstood yout post I apologise,but that certainly does not mean have a go at me.I dont know what barrel I am suposed to be scraping here? This kind of reinforces my anxieties about posting here, put a foot wrong and get pulled up on it.

In my own family, my dad's sisters had a much more 'sheltered' life than my mum and her sisters had, growing up. Dad's sisters went to finishing school instead of college, and then married men who had been to school with my uncles for the most part. I don't think they questioned their lives or the conditions under which they lived; they gave the impression that they were happy and fulfilled women, but they were all intelligent and could have earned a degree if they had been given a chance. Mum's were sent to college/had jobs, because they needed to support themselves.

upthread, claig mentioned the Queen.

Have you ever read about the lives of Royal women, or rich women in general? How absolutely miserable they are.
They are used as brood mares, have to turn a blind eye to their husbands' filandering, have to look and behave perfectly in public...I would say working class, single mothers have got it better than them in many, many ways..
Princess Masako in Japan, was treated just as appallingly as Diana, and ended up having a nervous breakdown linked to the fact (I believe) that she couldn't produce a male heir.
To say that because a women is well off means she somehow escapes patriarchy is, well, a little off.
She may be able to escape the worst excesses of the patriarchal system, more than a poor woman, but I would be surprised if there was a real correlation between a woman's wealth and her well-being. After you've been raised above the poverty line, any additional wealth doesn't count for much anyway.

And wealth is one thing, power quite another. Males have got wealth and power.

Niceshoes, you've misunderstood.
Custardo was implying I was an idiot when she said the reason I was a feminist was because I didn'T understand her POV.

On the contrary, not only do I understand her POV (because it is the status quo) but I have heard it many, many times before.

I do think you're scraping the bottom of the barrel when your argument is reduced to: "feminism doesn't need to exist and anyone who disagrees with me doesn't understand the status quo"