I am one... but why don't I want to be called one?

Minx, I am a feminist. I do not hate men. I hate men who behave in sexist manner, that is not all men. I am married to an amazing man and I certainly dont hate him. I am proud to be called a feminist. Look at all the amazing women who are feminists, Susan Sarandon, Annie Lennox, Charlize Theron, not to mention the amazing Marilyn French! I am glad to be likeminded with those women. I dont think we should rebrand/rename because it is like denying the work feminists have done in the past (historically). If some women feel men are superior to us then it is up to them, I DONT.

bow...

Only the cowardly dislike the word/label Feminist. What's wrong with the word? It's another string in the beau of the anti feminist to ruin the name of the movement.

I was at a parenting class the other day and was surrounded by women asking 'What is a feminist?', they were grown women. Perhaps we need an alternative press. Anyone fancy starting a brave but not extreme magazine, like Cosmo was when it was brave?

LOL Vezzie. OK, I concede that there are many people for whom it is as simple as that, and this needed pointing out

OK Seth, it's true that flying in the face of social pressure can be hard and the pressures are different for everyone. But it's still not feminism's fault, or the fault of the word. I mean you might say "I should stand up and be counted against xyz evil regime but I don't dare because I might be sacked, and then how would I support my children" (that would be reasonable enough, tho sad, and I bet a lot of people throughout history have thought or said that) but what we are hearing here is "I don't even want to stand up and be counted on issue xyz, or say I would if I could, because their public image hasn't been sensitively devised according to a series of focus groups to make me popular. They should change this before I can consider it. What about something sassy, yet sexy?"

The other thing about calling yourself a feminist (along with calling yourself anything else about which people have misconceptions) is that it opens you up to be asked a lot of questions, and you might not be prepared to answer them, especially if you are quite new to the ideas.

I think the label is important. Feminism is a different idea to just "being women". A woman who trafficked 14 year old girls into forced prostitution for example is not my idea of a feminist. Nor is a female government minister who works to roll back maternity provision for instance.

agree with Vezzie's second post strongly, first one not so much.
Yes there are people who dress up unease as well-meaning concern; that is true, anti-feminism is often disguised as lots of things.
I just don't think you ever know what you would have done yourself in a different context, and I think calling yourself a feminist is something that different individuals pay a different price for. Frankly so many of my friends are feminist and pro-feminist, and even my parents are fairly open to it (and my dad doesn't even roll his eyes ) so I personally don't pay a great social price for it - just the occasional eye-rolling or arsiness from a few people most of whom I am not particularly close to. But what if most of your friends and relatives, including people you love and respect, are anti-feminist? For that reason I don't think it's just a matter of 'grow the fuck up' - 'you should try to do the right thing even if it means people won't like you' is a good maxim but it is not always an easy one.

And another thing: if you were fighting, say, disease, or the effects of extreme weather, would you blithely sail off into life with the intention of just dealing with each individual case as it comes up? No, you would prepare, you would consult experts, you would join together to marshal equipment and labour. When has waiting for bad things to come up and then inventing some half-arsed solution on the fly, by yourself, ever been the right way to manage any bad thing that you KNOW is DEFINITELY going to happen, a lot?

Lots of good points by feminists on this thread.
However, I feel (and it is a general intuition rather than an accusation towards any individual) that a lot of the time when people dress up their unease about the word "feminism" as a well-meaning concern that it is not the most constructive word in this terrible world in which we live, because some other people have bad associations with it, what they are really worried about is that people won't like them, if they say they are feminist, which will be uncomfortable. Well get over it. There will always be people who don't like you for a million good and bad reasons: so fucking what. Would you refuse to oppose apartheid if it meant that people didn't like you? Yes, I think some of these whiners would, in certain historical and political contexts.
I have no sympathy or patience with people who are put off doing or saying what they know is the right thing because blinkered, entitled idiots won't like them. Grow the fuck up.

I'd also add that the common misconception/misperception that I have come across in people is that they think that feminism means women getting an advantage over men. Hence the desire in some men and women to distance themselves from the movement. It's certainly something that I've come across. To recognise that feminism is needed, you have to recognise that there is inequality still and not many people want to face up to that fact, or it may not be in their interest to do so.

And, if people don't understand something, they tend to mock it IMHO.

Just picked up on this thread.

I agree with others on here who say that the term 'feminist' has become hugely undermined and denigrated over the last few decades. Every time the feminist movement achieves a step forwards, there is a backlash and I think we have been on the receiving end of one in the last few years, to the point where many women do feel uncomfortable using the f-word to describe themselves.

I have had similar situations with friends who agree with the principles but who find the words problematic. It also seems to be a common question for people who have recently discovered feminism and it's something I gave some thought to when I 'discovered' feminism properly a few years ago.

I came to the conclusion that, no matter what the term is, it would be denigrated in some way because those who are threatened by the principles behind feminism will always seek to undermine the movement, including whatever label it has (and, if there isn't a label at all, a negative one would be invented).

I call myself a feminist but do encounter a negative reaction to the term pretty much everywhere - in work, in my peer group, in my family. I always brace myself for the negative comments or roll of the eyes whenever I use the term!

However, I feel that not to use it is a betrayal of all that has been achieved in decades before and I am heartened by the knowledge that more and more women are now joining the movement and using the term.

I was at the FiL conference with Tabouleh and I agree that Finn's speech at the end of the day was inspiring and moving.

Using the word 'feminist' is nothing to be ashamed of and hopefully, if more people (men and women) use and reclaim the term, the power of the negative connotations that have been inculcated into people's psyches will weaken.

I read a book recently about the abolition movement that William Wilberforce led and the bile and vitriol that the anti-abolitionists spouted at the anti-slavery lobbyists was very similar to that which we receive today. It took 20 years to get the laws prohibiting the slave trade through parliament because of the resistance from those who had a vested interest in retaining it. It was interesting to read how the battles, the arguments and the power struggles, though different in subject, were very much the same in principle to the feminist movement.

Morning all. Sorry I didn't stick around last night, had to go to bed just when things were getting interesting.

Shanahansrevenge - great thread and well done for sticking it out. I am glad you have decided to help us reclaim the label

BaronessBomburst I wish you would post in this topic more

FWIW I didn't read Sixpercent's post as calling Shanahansrevenge a manhater, because I didn't read Shanahansrevenge post about the man who calls feminists feminazis as her listening to them, so it was like, 'if you do x then y, but AFAIK Shanahan doesn't do x so she is not y.' But I can see how it could be interpreted the other way.

(gotta go, 2 screaming kids)

There is another angle to your more general point SR. Personally, I have shied away on occasion because I'm afraid I won't be able to articulate what I mean properly - get tangled up in knots - and 'let the side down'.
As everyone knows, feminists will get baited challenged, and as we all also know when one woman is muddle headed and tongue tied, it's proof that all woman are.

We still need the movement because it still isn't fair. Rebranding is always disastrous, we'd have to raise the profile all over again.

I couldn't erase the history of it either.

As others said, the media is driven by men who are in all the powerful positions, and they will denigrate whatever name of the movement that promotes the rights of women and as a side effect, threatening the privilege of men.

ShanahansRevenge re your OP:

"I am one... but why don't I want to be called one?"

Well I guess for me before I identified as a feminist I thought that things were equal/as equal as they could be.

I now realise that what I was seeing around me was an equality illusion and that I was seeing the world through the mainstream media and that I had subconsciously bought into a "boys will be boys/girls will be girls" mentality.

(re one of your later posts about why don't we knock anti-women items as they come etc - well there is a pattern - a pretty fucking huge pattern once you start to uncover it!)

The word "feminist" does conjour up negative emotions in many men! But the more you think about it the more you realise that this very truth should motivate women to identify with this political movement.

The fact that it is a given that women fighting for equality is something to be sneered at/blocked/belittled etc...

I think you've had the arguments that whatever the title there would be attacks against a group of women identifying as a group fighting for equality.

Plus there is a proud history to feminism.

minxofmancunia - I really don't think that there are any man hating extremists here - passionate committed radical feminists yes!
I use to be a bit at all this talk of "the patriarchy" - but it is about men as a group being more privileged than women.

What type of things would you like to see debated here - start some threads?

seth - when you said "but why not reclaim the word rather than rebrand the movement?" it reminded me of Finn Mackay's speech at FiL:

"Over this year I have heard much debate about whether feminism needs to be rebranded. As if a movement that has given us all the advances we today take for granted is something we should be ashamed of. That we can work in many different industries, that we have access to education, that domestic violence is considered a crime, that we can open our own bank accounts. As if a legacy of support services, rape crisis centres, refuges, nurseries, women?s centres, helplines and advocacy provisions that continue to support women, children and men today, are something that we should be embarrassed about. Feminism does not need re-branding, it needs re-claiming, and this is something that all of us can do."

feminism doesn't need rebanding - it needs reclaiming

ShanahansRevenge you said: "Who coined the term "feminist"?"

I don't know who but:

"feminism n (1895) 1 : the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes 2 : organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests ? feminist n or adj ? feministic adj"

Re the Fawcett Society campaign - I am not sure if I'd have heard about it if not through feminist blogs etc.

Our mainstream media is very male-centric see how I avoided using the scary patriarchy word - try out women's views on the news - and prepare to be shocked at the poor coverage of lots of things and at the refreshing women's slant on news.

Please stick around on this section - I am sorry that you feel bullied and I can see what you mean but - feminist are always attacked and your posts here I think (unwittingly) really touched on raw nerves.

I really don't think that you've been called a "woman-hater" - there are subtlties to the word "listen" in the context used on this thread (as in - If you listen to men who use the term feminazi, then you're a woman-hater.)

Personally I don't think that phrasing was helpful - but that work is hideous hideous and I find it unpleasant that you posted it in the first place.

Hope you'll stick around and learn more about why you are a feminist (you are a feminist - yes you are!)

Of course! As long as I'm home by 5 to cook tea.

it did you credit. can we count on your support for the upcoming revolution?
VOTE FEMINISM

Naah - I'd lose. You lot frighten the shit out of me most of the time! Think that's why in a moment of insanity bravery I tried to stick up for SR.

Danny Dyer . Can we start on that one tomorrow. I'm kinda tired and I think he might take a wee bit longer...

oh, you still wanna fight eh baroness?

x-post with everyone - as usual. This is why I never post here.

I don't think she did jump on feminists and feminism. As I read it, the OP wanted to know if there was a way of making it more approachable and reducing the prejudice and negative connotations of the name - like when companies change their names to make them 'new' or more user-friendly.

I do agree though, that this isn't the way forward; we just need to get the name back. And possibly part of that would be to be a bit more gentle and tolerant towards ignorance and to aim to educate rather than alienate.

danny dyer