What makes a man?

Collecting is collecting is collecting. What people tend to collect depends on their gender and thus what direction they are pointed in when they are young / what their friends do / etc etc

Women and girls do collect things, honest.

Why is trainspotting unusual? I have trainspotters in the family I'll have you know Although it's not nearly as prevalent as it used to be, obviously the steam age was the height of trainspotting.

Yes most men don't like it, and some women like it. But I think of all the people who do like it, the majority of men liking it is probably statistically significant. I chose trainspotting because it is such an unusual activity and is therefore interesting to look at.

Girls meanwhile are busy sitting at home with their sticker collections, their rubber collections, their dolly collections, putting them in order in different ways, and spending hours obsessively doing their hair and other endless grooming activities, or grooming their toys.

(Not all of them obv, but you get my drift).

Not that dissimilar really. Just one is directed outwards at "male things" like buses and trains, the other is directed towards girl-friendly things that are to do with pink and sparkles and staying safely at home.

Claig: that's crap. There are differences between people but very, very little difference is solely down to gender. Most men do not, for instance, like trainspotting, but some women do.

'one of the wierdest things mundanes do is, while being unfit themselves, get obsessive about watching other people doing sport'

I think the reason is that more men are interested in competition. Even if they are totally unfit, competition increases their testosterone levels and gets their adrenalin flowing.

I think there is a difference between the sexes that is not to do with socialisation. I am sure that there are far more men interested in something like trainspotting than women. Most if us couldn't understand the fascination, but to some people (and more often men) this is fascinating. I think it is something to do with categorising, collecting, controlling etc.

And that's one of the reasons men keep women out of sports jedi.

Because they fear the threat to their masculinity of being beaten by a girl.

Bless.

Yes even in a casual pub game men don't like being beaten by a female, especially a short blonde one

I used to love playing pool

This new snooker thing - with the boxing bloke changing the way some of the tournaments work - I thought that there would be a certain amount of "amateurs" in the big competition (the one at the crucible YKWIM) - if they qualify they're in - I thought that might mean some women getting in there? What do you think.

BTW I've had men throw cues at me, and hurl all kinds of abuse because I beat them. It really does upset them to be beaten "by a girl"

the WPBSA basically bought the womens game and dismantled it. Many English women snooker players are in America playng pool, while the WPBSA are trying hard to get more (male) players interested. It's been a struggle since the end of tobacco sponsorship to get the money to keep the sport afloat but they just won't encourage women even though that would help the whole sport in general. They're too scared it'll mess up the rankings.

Darts too.
I think that's probably a hangover from the days when nice women didn't go to pubs and play, what was originally pub games.

I used to love playing pool sixpercent. Was shit at snooker (only tried it once by god the table is huge and i was really pissed ) but certainly IME women who play pool regularly are on a par with men who play - and why wouldn't they be, it not a game of physical strength. I was pretty good in my day, even if I do say so myself

I have always wondered why there aren't any female snooker players in the big championships - whether they are actually excluded from competing with the men or whether they don't qualify. If the latter, I think we can all guess the reason...

sorry that was a bit of a hijack

On a sport related note, I've always been a fan of snooker. I play snooker and pool. There is no reason why men and women can't compete in both these sports and yet the resistance is unbelievable. Women have to leave the country if they want to get any kind of career in this field.

Yes and all the positive attributes associated with it - strength, speed, prowess, fitness, health - are all associated with men.

You buy a magazine with health or fitness that's geared at women and is it about health or fitness? Is it bollocks, it's about bloody dieting - denying yourself food, feeling hungry and powerless. All the things sport isn't about.

Now I am totally uninterested in sport (one of the wierdest things mundanes do is, while being unfit themselves, get obsessive about watching other people doing sport. WTF is the point of that?) but I still get irritated at the idea that this is because I have a fanjo.
Women are socialised to avoid sport, because it would distract them from nurturing men and taking care of other people.

Oooh good rant

With something like sport, I don't think there's any doubt that the reason more men like it is because they are socialised to, and we are socialised not to. Sport is something which genuinely empowers women - it shows us our strength, our physical prowess, our accuracy, our concetration, our mental rigour, it keeps us healthy and fit, it sends out endorphins which make us feel happy and cheerful and positive and empowered - someone who has just done a five mile run is very unlikely to come home and take undermining shit from anyone. So of course we are marginalised from it, it makes us red in the face, messes up our hairdos, makes make up pointless, and makes it clear to men that we're doing something for ourselves, not to attract them. Of course we're sold the myth that killer heels empower us more and sport is for unattractive, determined, unfeminine women. It's a man's domain; go to any gym or running club and you'll see how welcome women are. Because we don't have the muscle mass of men and we're not as big and strong as them, the fact that we're the best we can be for us, as opposed to being in competition with them, is mocked and derided and implied to be a waste of time. And the media follows suit, only bothering to follow men's sport and report on men's doings and where women do figure in sport, concentrating on their looks and outfits. No wonder so many women think it's something that isn't really for them.

Oops. Turned into a bit of a rant, that, didn't it.

slugs snails puppydogs tails

Or are you thinking in terms of stereotypical ideas of "what makes a man" and noticing that many of them aren't actually very nice things to be?

Who are you trying to articulate this to? Are people asking you difficult questions or is it something you're asking yourself?

Like Harpsi I can tell you what traits I like in a man, but that's not quite what you're asking

TheFeministParent, my view is that statistically there are a few characteristics that are more common amongst men than women, and others that are more common among women than men. For example, statistically it is more common for men to be interested in sport than it is for women.

However, I think it is unhelpful to make generalised statements about these differences, because:

(a) although it may be more common for men to be interested in sport, there are still plenty of women who are interested in sport. If we make the general statement that "men are more interested in sport", that's pretty unfair on all the women who are interested. Likewise, it's unfair on the men who are not especially interested in sport.

(b) it is quite likely that a lot of the difference is nurture rather than nature - i.e. more men are interested in sport because they were brought up to be. There is still a huge amount of gender conditioning that goes on.

(c) there are far, far more similarities between men and women than there are differences. Differences are more likely to come from background and personality traits, rather than from gender. There doesn't seem to be anything particularly helpful about focusing on gender differences.

So upset no-one has put a decent Y chromosome joke in here.

Being brought up as a man is what makes someone a man for me. Like Dworkin's a woman is not born she is made.