What makes a man?

Was going to say Take That.

snort cross post.

Ok Take That concert

Hmm why is that.
Historical? All the stuff was made for the men and it carried on?

Barry Manilow concerts?

Women's activities aren't supposed to bring them together in large numbers though are they, that's something that's still reserved for men. I can't think of anything that results in huge hundred thousand strong groups of women all there for the same reason, with hardly any men present. Happy to be corrected on that.

I am starting to think that for all of the "male" activities, which obviously show that their brains work in a different way , there are equivalent "women's" activities. The difference is that the "women's" activities are considered so utterly crap, that no-one talks about them very loudly, so they don't get noticed.

HerBeatitude.

The facts / watching of sport is just some sort of displacement activity isn't it? Like lots of things both males and females do. Get overly involved in something to avoid... what? boredom, loneliness... not sure. Or to be part of something with a language other's speak.

Really being competitive (if that's a trait someone has), to me, is actually participating in the activity.

Oh Marsha I totally agree.

Having been on a couple of dates recently, what strikes me about men my age is just how unfit they are compared to me.

But seriously you're right, I don't think they are fitter overall. Their lifestyle and clothing does make it easier for them to be fit though, if they wanted to be.

(Which makes it all the more crushingly disappointing when they're not.)

I don't think men are more sportier than women. We have all seen the unfit couch potatoes who watch a ball game with a six pack. I think the difference is that they enjoy the competition between teams more. We all know men who few other topics of conversation than the statistical information on the number of away goals scored over the past decade; the "Statto" type figures of the Baddiel and ? show.

Exactly Alice. These supposedly male/female differences usually break down as soon as you start comparing all men and women rather than only the ones who have been socialised in our culture.

There might be differences on average, that's true. It's a mistake to then say "boys and like this and girls are like that".

It is also far from conclusive whether average differences are due to innate differences or socialisation.

The fact that young men are more likely to write themselves off in a car crash than other groups is just as likely to be to do with socialisation as with genuine differences. If girls weren't raised to be "good" and boys weren't raised to be "risk takers" then maybe the difference in that very sad statistic wouldn't be there.

Th3 Italians are more social due to culture.

God we don't watch sport in this house. Except for some of the athletics, tennis, (female or male).

No I mean men aren't sportier, fitter or have better toned physiques. They are generally more likely to slump in front of the tv... perhaps while the woman is going for a run enjoying an endorphin rush!

I don't mind that women don't do the same, slump in front of the tv with alcohol, but I do mind if the perception exists that men are 'sportier' as a whole. Because I don't think they are.

I know nothing about trainspotting, fortunately . I agree it is social with the group of people that have a similar interest. Maybe it's not male/female, maybe it's to do with nationality. I don't think Italians understand the concept.

So if trainspotting is down to being male, why did the Italian men not get it?

If Italians are more social, is this down to their innate Italian nature or a different culture?

If there are differences between Brits and Italians due to their different culture, making the latter more social, why would these same culturally determined differences not be seen between men and women?

Male and female difference due to possession of different genitals

Brit and Italian difference due to culture

Huh

Also LOL @ "the italians don't get it so it must be weird"

But why isn't there £ in women watching it?

Because we're socialised out of it.

And often, because men have charge of the TV.

And for some reason, "men's" TV occasions are considered important. The FA cup is appointment TV for the couple and the whole group of friends. The X factor final is appointment TV only for the girlies.

IYSWIM

Yes lots of people behave stereotypically "other", but there are still trends and tendencies that created the stereotypes on average. We had a thread on driving a while back, and lots of posters said they didn't drive on motorways. We know that most crazy reckless drivers are young boy racers. They like driving like maniacs and take greater risks than young women. I don't think that is due to socialisation. The law tries to prevent them doing it, but they still do it.

With all that sport stuff I get the idea I do.

But it also makes me feel a bit sad that people think it is that gender specific. I mean I love sport, I love the fact that female European athletes were on the television. I love doing it as much as lots of males. Loads of my female friends do too.

So I don't think there is a big dissimilarity. If it's in the media it's just due to £ which is dependent on men watching it, not being fitter in general.

Trainspotting is a social activity. Or at least it often is / can be. Same as any other activity.

How much do you know about trainspotting, claig?

You're not about to start on birders are you? Or trekkies?

On average it may be that more men are "collectors" than women. It would be interesting to see how it is categorised (men tend to "collect" more obvious things).

But still at an individual level it all becomes rather meaningless - the similarities are much greater than the differences, even on average. And vast numbers of people behave in ways that are stereotypically "other".

I think trainspotting is unusual. I lived in Italy for a while, and the Italians couldn't understand trainspotting. I think it is because Italians are more socialised.

LOL at women obsessively collecting prams.

I was blissfully unaware of that obession in my pre-mumsnet days.

a hero of mine - Allison Fisher who said herself she wasn't afforded the same respect as her male counterparts

Yes you are right. Girls collect dolls etc. and there are women who collect prams obsessively. But I think (I may be wrong) that there are more obsessive collector types among men than women. I think it is to do with being social. I think there are more male outliers who are anti-social than female outliers. I think that is to do with nature.