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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

STBW thanks people here

41 replies

SupposedToBeWorking · 12/11/2010 17:19

I've been on some of the recent threads about "small" sexual assaults, about feminist converts, about taking sexual abuse seriously. I have never before experienced what it's like to be listened to and responded to by so many people about assault and about being female.

I have had parts of my mind turned inside out right way out.

I have been a powerhouse of education at the individual level in RL this week.

I am making sure that women and men hear that the expectation that female people who have been assaulted will suffer quietly instead of the people who assault them suffering publicly has done probably more damage to me than the attacks themselves;

that that is a social issue not a psychological one;

and that that is what I'm going to dismantle.

I am demonstrating the principle by discussing it (and crying and cursing and trembling) with the same candour and in the same contexts that I would for any other conversation with people in my RL - with a mindfulness of and compassion for the many people hearing me who will have their own wounds that still hurt.

I'm going to have therapy or something too, because I need a hand losing the specific effects of my specific experiences. But it's more powerful to me that I'm going to go to Reclaim the Night and that I set up a standing order to give money to Rape Crisis. Taking a visible stand alongside other women and men: that's me taking charge of my healing.

I don't feel any shame about only directly addressing for now this tiny small part of the suffering that humans mete out to each other. Other injustices are no reason why I should not work to redress imbalances that do happen to affect me.

I can do this because I have in my mind the posts of hundreds of women which I take as support. Some of them are written to me! I shine when I see those. I'm very quickly moving to a position where I will do this simply because of the posts of hundreds of women which I take as motivation. But I will never, ever forget the layering of acceptance, confirmation, responsiveness, concern and care that I myself received here.

Thank you all. I am exhausted in my body, but my spirit is just waking up Smile

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chocolatestar · 20/11/2010 22:25

Happy it went well. Take extra care of yourself, talking can make you feel vulnerable.

Agree with the others about your posts Dittany. I actually feel that I am starting to internalise something new since I started reading here. I've struggled with doubts about things being my fault for years but I am starting to see the context of it all if that makes sense.

AnnieLobeseder · 20/11/2010 11:48

Another Smile for your plaster cast.

And a Bear, because they're cute.

You're amazing.

SupposedToBeWorking · 20/11/2010 11:40

Aw, I go away for a nap and everyone's all holding hands and sharing cake! That's so completely the right response for us all.

Dittany, you more than help, and in no small way. It's not just me I can start to stick up for now, but all the women I meet and all the women I will never meet. Like millions of women, I internalised a lot of the lies that are told about us - as well as the lies that are told about people of different (and our own) classes, colours, bodies... And instead of feeling angry about that, I felt guilty, like I was letting the side down - I blamed myself instead of the patterns of thought and talk and treatment that we've all been subject to and the particular versions of them that I've encountered. This board, and your stubborn tunnel vision Grin is helping me see a more accurate version of the world. Not just about sexual assaults, but social ones.

wukter, thank you so much for your words before I went to my session. I've only been able to take them in this morning - my eyes kind of bounced off them the first time I saw them, I guess I had some wariness about being kind to me. This morning they made me weep with smiling, though.

Smile
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wukter · 19/11/2010 18:14

This is lovely to see.

dittany · 19/11/2010 18:06

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sethstarkaddersmum · 19/11/2010 17:57
Smile
AnyFucker · 19/11/2010 17:56

Dittany, your posts have been very helpful to me over the last few years

It took me a little while to "get" you, but I do now, in spades

dittany · 19/11/2010 17:54

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wukter · 19/11/2010 17:52

This is great to hear, STBW.

She sounds like a great therapist, that you click with.

Mind yourself Smile

AnyFucker · 19/11/2010 17:21

Am glad you posted this too

We were there with you !

BitOfFun · 19/11/2010 16:46

Oh three cheers for you and your mumsnetting therapist Grin. You are doing so well, I'm really glad you've posted this x

SupposedToBeWorking · 19/11/2010 14:53

I think she was good.

She put an enormous emphasis on making everything safe for me. I found it a bit tedious and unnecessary, but I suspect that's because I've got too used to the idea that considerations about my wellbeing can't ever be paramount.

I told her that I've had therapy before and was always wanting the therapist to confirm for me, 'Yes, that was rape', 'Yes, you were abused'. I only ever got that infuriating therapist's response of 'It doesn't matter what I think', or 'Do you think you were raped?'

When I said that, she went like this: Shock Hmm Angry Sad and said, 'Well, I won't be doing any of that.' Smile

And she knew MN. She knows about rape myths, she knows about misogyny. And (deep breath)... she said I can recover. Like, that it's possible. And doesn't mean pretending everything's ok now when it isn't. I don't get what it does mean, but I'm keen on finding out.

I'll probably go back. Thank you all for coming with me (I took you in my pocket, in case she wasn't as supportive as you are Grin).

I could sleep for a week.

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wukter · 19/11/2010 00:28

I have just seen this STBW.
Wow. What a big change for you. You have great courage.

I will say this

Your feelings are legitimate, they are your yours.
Your feelings matter.

You are worthy of regard.

You don't need to justify WHY that is so to anyone.

Good luck with the therapist.

Wxx

SupposedToBeWorking · 18/11/2010 22:56

Now I'm in happy tears!

A broken leg is exactly how I described it to someone in RL yesterday, Dittany. I said that some people seem to think it's like having a cold, and that you feel lousy for a while but it goes away and you go back to normal. But it isn't, and it can get worse over time, not better. By now, it hurts so much and it disables me so often and so severely that I can't go on pretending it's fine. I want crutches for a while, while concerned people attend to my healing (perfect word, you're right) and also make allowances like we do for anyone who's injured. And I'd like people to draw smiley faces on my plaster cast. Like this: Smile

Dittany, you've been a solid support for months, to way more people than just me. Your support for women who have been harmed is constant and persistent. You've been hurt yourself, and yet you are a champion for all of us too: I send you my love and I stand by your side.

AF I'm happy to see you here! I've been practicing sounding a bit more like you, out loud Grin

chocolatestar, you are also really brave and you also deserve healing. My appointment is late morning, and it might come to nothing. But even if it does, I hereby award myself several billion gold stars for everything I have and haven't done over the past couple of weeks 25 years - so I've got plenty to dish out to all the rest of us.

Night night all. Thank you for your comfort.

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dittany · 18/11/2010 21:10

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dittany · 18/11/2010 21:03

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AnyFucker · 18/11/2010 20:52

hi, STBW, I missed this thread the first time around but glad to see it bumped now x

you sound lovely, and you sound real

and you sound just like me, in my head Smile

chocolatestar · 18/11/2010 20:45

Good luck tomorrow, I will be thinking of you. I think you are really brave. Let us know how it goes.

SupposedToBeWorking · 18/11/2010 19:35

Can I just clarify, it's not because I'm going to RTN that I made an appointment to see a therapist Grin

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SupposedToBeWorking · 18/11/2010 19:34

So I've bought my train ticket for the Reclaim the Night march, and I've been talking to all sorts of people in RL about rape and assault (nationally and my own), and tomorrow I have an appointment with a therapist. She's shown quite some sense and awareness by email, I hope she feels safe to me in person too.

I know this topic isn't the usual place for an individual support thread, but if anyone has any supportive words for me I wouldn't half appreciate them. I've been a bit wobbly since I've really stopped hiding from it quite so much. Nothing major is going to get said tomorrow but I'm shaking with fear/fury and feeling not very sure of myself. I'm scared of being told yet again that I don't qualify for sympathy.

Thank you all for the love you've sent so far, and for speaking out on threads and in the world. I'm off out for the evening now, but will be able to check thread before my appointment.

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chocolatestar · 15/11/2010 20:12

Lovely posts. I also got a huge amount of strength from that thread, it was very powerful.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 15/11/2010 12:02

"women also learn to think of women as 'them', without knowing that that's what's happening."

Shock

That's so true. Had never thought of it like that before.

Which is why there's widespread cynicism about women as a group. How can we trust their opinions, feelings, motivations, when they are, well, them.

Whereas there is enormous credulity and faith in the motivations of men as a group. Never more so than in the area of sexual assault. Huge faith is put in men's goodwill and reluctance to do wrong deliberately. Hence all the excuses.

SupposedToBeWorking · 14/11/2010 12:50

Can we also have one that says 'We believe you'?

wukter, people for whom it isn't quite safe to connect are still in my 'us'. There's a political 'us', and I have completely no idea actually which real people I'm allying myself with Grin, and there's the 'us' in my heart. I've got room for everyone there.

BOF, you were the first person on MN who responded to me about rape. Without the encouragement that I got from that, I wouldn't have got brave enough to check whether anyone else would take as kind a line as you did. (All you said was that it must have been hard to post and that you felt for me. That was a big kindness compared to what I expected. And you made me a sad face, and to me that was like being held at last by someone who cared.)

You know something else I love about this part of MN? That even when I can't say things too coherently, the sheer numbers mean that someone is likely to get what I mean.

thecatspjs: [heart] back to you.

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LeninGrad · 14/11/2010 09:12

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thecatspjs · 14/11/2010 08:33

I lurked on that thread, although I didn't contribute because I have fairly trivial incidences to add (luckily for me). However, I am glad you started this thread because I have been wanting to say how marvellous I think you all are, and the strength and support and compassion in evidence was so heartening and empowering. I love this part of MN.

[Fist punch with little heart emoticon]