Ruin your favourite books/films with a spot of feminist analysis

But it never occurred to me that she was a seamstress. Lovely point. If I ever see La Boheme again I shall stand up and shout 'make yourself some fucking gloves, you wet bint!' and never darken the doors of Covent Garden again.

CJ - just snorted my tea... Never considered that aspect before!

I have only seen Pretty Woman once about 15 years ago but IIRC one of Richard Gere's colleague's asks her about doing a bit of 'business' with him and she gets offended??? Bizarre.

The sexual politics of most romances (films / books) are totally weird but I don't want to read a book or see a film that is about two healthy well-adjusted equals forming a mutually fulfilling supportive relationship. What's good in real life just doesn't make good art or entertainment. FWIW I think Mike Leigh and Pedro Almodovar (and Hitchcock - flame if you like on that one) create amazing female characters but you could hardly accuse them of depicting positive role models or being totally unproblematic in their depiction of relationships or gender.

In feminist film criticism there is a lot of work on the female viewer 'reading' the film against the ending or conclusion and finding strength in dominant film characters despite the fact they are 'contained' (in death or marriage) at the end. This is what I think readers find in films from Bette David melodramas to Dirty Dancing, Grease, Titanic etc. The strength and journey of the character is more important than how the narrative takes her.

Anyway - it's been a long time since I did my degree and my brain is mush from a long day. Hope I make some sense.

PS: in GWTW I am troubled, less by the Rhett rape, than the fact the whole book (and the film to a lesser extent) is one long apologia for slavery and the KKK. This still hasn't lodged it from its position in my top ten all time favourites

PS Agree Mimi was a total wimp, but she couldn't make herself any gloves - her tiny hands were frozen

E&M, Im not a fan of "man rescues woman" films or literature at all. I went to Disneyland, Paris with some friends (and their children) long before I had DD. There is a "Princess Parade" and I said, rather too loudly, "Oh yes, feed another generation the line that their lives are only complete when the handsome prince arrives. Load of romantic claptrap..." Not well received, really but it felt sooooo good to say it!

Actually, this isn't a book or film but is still outrageous. There was an ad for the Post Office a few years ago where a slightly careworn Mum reminded her teenage/grown-up children that it was Dad's birthday. She rang the daughter, who said 'Oh, yes, I've got a card, will just post it.'

She then rang the son, saying ... (something along the lines of):

^'I expect you've forgotten it's Dad's birthday. I've got a card for you, do you want to come round and sign it before I post it?'

This was only about five years ago. How are the men of this generation ever supposed to grow up and think for themselves?

Marking a place. Need to read whole thread. But will just say Pretty Woman is fucking outrageous.

To really, really lower the general tone of this thread, my DD(3) loves Alvin & The Chipmunks (The Squeakquel). There is a scene in which a teenage boy wishes to speak with the chipmunks, who have been speaking with a group of teenage girls. The boy says "private conversation" and the girls all get up and leave the table. This infuriates me (I've even mentioned it on MN before) and even DD now says "How rude!" every time she watches it

To get back to literature/films, however, I find Wuthering Heights and Jane Eyre "itchy" beyond belief. I suppose I need to consider when they were written but I hate them both because the women are either complete saps or they have to die (Cathy).

Similarly, I love the opera Carmen but it pisses me off that she "gets her just desserts" and dies/is killed (can't actually remember which).

As for bloody La Boheme... Virtuous woman dies of consumption (and takes ages about it) while moaning about having cold hands. Make yourself some gloves, you wimp, you're a seamstress. Or get one of those useless lumps of men always lingering about the place to contribute to the household expenses.

And what about bloody South Pacific where the island girl falls for the US sailor but, of course, that can't go anywhere can it?

I didn't mean the thread, I meant in general! It fucks me right off but that's for another thread that I might start depending on whether I can find a film to watch tonight.

Sorry, I meant that the writers on MM are aware of the misogyny, rather than mainstream TV and film not being aware at all.

Someone mentioned Mad Men earlier. It's my favourite thing on the telly and the more I learn about feminism, the more I am enjoying it. It's painful in its observation, but it is portraying the misogynism knowingly rather than just something that is normal, if that makes sense. Probably because it has a large number of female writers on it. Would make a brilliant study on here, actually - the Guardian blog is great, but they (the generally male commenters) tend to shy away from the feminism stuff.

My list of favourite books/films is diminishing rapidly the more I read on here.

And to lower the tone: Ross was NOT on a break. He spends 6 series banging on about it and making out that Rachel is a neutoic fool, however he slept with someone the night that he and Rachel had a row, the sleazeball.

They were so NOT on a break (been pissing me off since 1998, that one)

Now I love and adore Working Girl, and Sigourney Weaver in it, but the fact that SW's character is portaryed as a hard nose career bitch really pisses me off. And the fact that Harrison Ford is unfathful to her with Melanie Griffith and nobody bats an eyelid and still thinks he is a hero.

Melanie Griffith is a sap in that film, she is so passive. I love Joan Cusack's character with the terrible 80s hair and war paint.

WHY do I love that film so much?

The Tibetan inn was ace, I would have loved to have had Marion's drinking ability!

Totally agree about Thelma and Louise, what a shame, especially after they bomb the nasty trucker with " where do you get off speaking to women you don't know like that?"