Ruin your favourite books/films with a spot of feminist analysis

Calam is fabulous. Love that film! Haven't seen Deadwood though...

There are three series, Elephants. Possibly the best-written television drama ever made, with some really superbly-drawn female characters. Based on historical truth too.

Tee Hee @ balloon slayer re: Morse.

I always found it bizarre as a child that both glamorous 40 somethings Krystal and Alexis were in a hot lather over that doddery grey-haired grandad Blake in Dynasty.

On the subject of Calamity Jane (who I love), I have just finished watching the box-set of Deadwood, in which she has a happy ending of sorts with Joanie Stubbs, who was herself abused as a child and pimped out, experiences depression and suicidal impulses, but goes on to forge a life lived with integrity.

It was really moving.

Also Inspector Morse (re the Woody Allen thing) In Colin Dexter's novels he is even less attractive than John Thaw (fat, balding, into porn, in other words: looks like Colin Dexter) but still has younger women finding him attractive.

John Thaw was OK-ish, but every week he'd be pulling some forty-something, when my seventy seven year old Mum would probably have thought twice about him. Mind you they always turned out to be the murderer so perhaps they thought Any Port in a Storm before a long spell in Holloway.

I loved Woody Allen films when I was a teenager
Now I just think 'oh grow up'

Mama Mia - a film supposedly about women, with massive amounts of screen time for women, still managing to be all about a man.

Scent of a woman- shite.

Also think 'feminist' characters written by men are often not feminist at all - take Samantha of SITC; sexually liberated? Or man's object?

I find her interesting from a feminist point of view because I enjoyed the fact she was never punished by 'the writers for her active sex life.

But I think she became a sort of eye rolling, lip smacking, parody of herself towards the end of the series.

I HATED the film which was so laboured, so awful it was embarrassing. The conclusion was that all women really want yo do is fuck and shop.

divorced scriptwriter in his 40s with 17 year old girlfriend; ball-breaking feminist ex-wife IIRC.
but it's in black and white, which means despite the paedophilia it is Great Art.
(I mean, she's 17 so technically it's not paedophilia, but it reminds me a bit of the chapter in the Gail Dines porn book about porn where the girl is older but there is lots of stuff to signal her being child-like)

And to add to the ITNG discussion - I think gender roles depicted on CBeebies are almost uniformly stereotypical. Boys like trains and cars. Girls like clothes and dancing. In almost every pre-school programme the main characters are male with one or two token women.

Zingzillas - 4 of the lead females are MUTE or never talk properly leaving just one with a voice (and the voice of Sarah-Jane Honeywell to boot)
Timmy Time
Octonauts
Chuggington (in one episode the lazy annoying boy train did a race with the bright hard-working girl train and the moral was that it was better to be a plodder than ambitious and diligent - DH hated me for ranting about that all morning. )
Bob the Builder

I think Justin Fletcher in drag is holding up the strong female character side of things single handedly!

I loathe Woody Allen and all his works. Not funny; not clever; and so bloody self indulgent.

CJ - You're on a roll!

aargh, I meant unfeasibly attractive woman, duh.

in fact, Woody Allen's entire oeuvre: geeky unattractive and immature man gets unfeasibly unattractive (but insecure) woman despite having nothing whatsoever to recommend him. Male wish-fulfilment or what....

Woody Allen's Manhattan - let's just not go there.

Brief Encounter - woman dithers over whether to live her life submerged in her husband and children, or just submerged in some good-works-doing heroic doctor.

BelleDame, tell her the story of the silly lady who died because she didn't wear gloves. Come to think of it, I might tell my DD that one, too. (And the one about the equally silly lady who never zipped up her coat ...)

Have you not seen Barb Wire NotJust? Casablanca storyline with Pamela Anderson in the Bogart role?

I'm not so bothered about female characters being positive role models. I just would like them to be something other than a plot device for the man's leading role. I loved Notes From A Scandal despite disliking the characters, for example. And yes, I think the same about a lot of the Mike Leigh characters.

I would love to see The Graduate from the pov of Mrs Robinson. I bet there are loads of films, like Casablanca, that would be really interesting if the lead pov was changed.

Just laughed so loud that DD is asking me what's so funny!