Protect our daughters (and sons)- a "toolkit "

Don't know if it's been mentioned but how about not putting girls/women down because of their hormonal changes? I remember being upset about things and boys saying it was because I was 'on the blob' as if that could be the only reason I might be upset.

Dittany - why do you have to be so unpleasant? I queried your use of a phrase that I thought was a bit unreasonable. You could have explained to me that you were using it ironically - ie 'boys will be boys' instead of as it was which did imply that you shared those sentiments.

But instead you reacted quite angrily and, IMO, repeated your original assertion. I tried to explain myself and apologised for upsetting you. But that makes me 'disgusting' and apparently I am 'doing it on purpose' . Well thanks. I won't bother coming here again.

elephants - thanks for trying to explain. I guess that what you said was what dittany meant but why she couldn't just explain clearly in the first place I don't know.

Make sure boys and girls know what the definitions are, that if girls say "no" they mean "no", I hate this idea that girls only say "no" as a tease and "no" is meaningless.

Girls need to get assertive and to be taught about abusive and bullying behaviours, including the emotional bullying that can then lead to sexual assaults so they recognise the early signs and make their escape. Many of the relationship abuse threads on MN could have been avoided if people knew more about the abuse cycle and abusive behaviours.

Remove the belief that girls should be compliant and not make a fuss. Remove the belief that manliness is commensurate with bragging about sex and trying to endlessly get sex.

Boys need to be taught that they will come under a lot of pressure to commit sexual assault (call it by its name), be that by word or deed - that friends, colleagues, the media, maybe even family will tell them that "boys will be boys", that girls like it, that they're asking for it, that it's not a big deal.

They need to be warned about this, and they need to be told that if they bow to peer pressure and commit these assaults then it's their fault. Life is tough, but "being one of the lads" is not an excuse.

And I do think it needs to be about the boys, and what they can do to not be that man, not what girls can do to protect themselves.

Maybe that would have the added benefit gettting men to start calling it when they see it too (and I know many do).

aargh I feel like this is one of those "hilarious examples of where missing punctuation leads to confusion".

How does this sound?

Don't accept boys will be boys

becomes

Don't accept [the excuse that] "boys will be boys"

OK OK no-one but you is ever has a righteous complaint or can have an opinion.

I'm off now.

"it is not a natural or inevitable consequence of being male, it is a choice made by the individual boy" implies that there is every hope of your boys making the right choices"

Well that is what I think too. It isn't what dittany said and isn't what she seems to be repeating now.

BTW I apologised for upsetting you dittany, I didn't apologise for questioning you on your use of language.

"Yes boys will be boys does imply you're on to a loser from the start which is why I said don't accept it"

Well I was right then! You think that boys are naturally sexual predators unless it's taught out of them? Well why the hell did you get so upset when I questioned it?

Orm - IMO "boys will be boys" used as an excuse in the context of sexual bullying implies you are onto a loser from the start. Saying "don't write sexual bullying off as 'boys will be boys', it is not a natural or inevitable consequence of being male, it is a choice made by the individual boy" implies that there is every hope of your boys making the right choices. It's the rape/assault excusers who like to wheel out the "boys will be boys" excuse, because it avoids having to blame individual men/boys for their behaviour. Unfortunately at the same time as giving men/boys a get out of jail free card (often literally), it tars them all with the same brush.

Right.

Girls need to taught that not only are their bodies their own, but they don't have to be pressurised into looking any particular way to fit in.

Be strident. If you don't like something that someone is doing, say so.

Boys - sex is not a right.

Not having sex does not make you a loser, anymore than not having sex makes a girl frigid. Sex isn't the be all and end all of life.

Sorry to upset you. But IMO that is exactly what the use of that phrase without quotation marks implied. I accept that is not what you meant but please don't get hoity with me - I am on the same side as you beleive it or not but I come from the position of having 2 boys to bring up as well as a girl, and I worry about how to do that properly in order to produce 2 right-thinking respectful men, as well as a confident, self-respecting woman. And a phrase such as that one, used in this context, implies I am on to a loser from that start

I think - I hope - there is going to be a swing towards advertising rape as something that men do to women, not something that women invite. There have been a few campaigns internationally. That can only help.

Some comparison between sexist remarks and racist remarks might be good. That tends to shock people into realising what they are saying.

Also testimony from some former victims of sexual bullying about their experiences and what helped and what didn't (disbelieving parents for instance).

Legal definitions of things like rape, including statutory rape, sexual assault and harrassment would be helpful too. Few people seem aware of whether things are/aren't rape. We certainly never got taught this in school.

The idea of active consent needs to become the norm IMO. Kids need to be taught that their bodies are their own and if ANYONE (not just "strangers" or "adults" as I was taught) touches them, or makes them feel uncomfortable, they can report and WILL be listened to. They also need to be taught about the concept of personal space, and that everyone has the right not to be touched unless they wish you to touch them.