Protect our daughters (and sons)- a "toolkit "

Linked to the law -consequences of conviction for offenders could be included.

tabouleh, i also agree with naming the behaviour i.e; "please don't sexually assault me". it leaves no margin for error, no confusion. that if you continue with this behaviour it is sexual assault and you will face charges.

thank you OP for this thread, i think it is a great idea and is challenging some thibngs i hadn't even considered before. having two young boys, i really do appreciate this.

dittany - ok, not "this isn't real". Rather why this is aimed at men, rather than women, analysis of how it focusses on men's pleasure at the expense of women's indifference or pain. It's like media studies really. Look at who it's aimed at, and how that influences its content.

i think getting the idea embedded in both boys and girls that just because someone does have lots of sex or is promiscuous, doesn't mean tehy are fair game for anyone to shout abuse or grope them.

i saw a very upsetting status in fb yesterday. my sister has just gone to australia with my cousin and his girlfriend. a friend who is already out there said they will show them around and even show them where all the prostitutes were. my cousins girlfriend replied that she couldn't wait to shout abuse at them.

Like it is website on sex - linked from Childline - surely this page on sex should mention something about rape and sexual assault etc.

Childline stuff about sex

Elephants - you and me need to go hang out on a teen forum I reckon and "role-model" some assertive/feminist behaviour?

Actually are there good websites for children/teens on this topic?

Sorry if that seems OT. What I'm saying is that sexual bullying can and does take place within relationships as well as outside them. Girls being treated like this need the validation that it's not a "private matter" if it's your boyfriend sexually bullying you (you're a lesbian or you would want to fuck me etc).

Oh - has anyone mentioned some materials WRT porn, in terms of "they are actors, this is not what most people's real sex lives look like, here's why this might not be a good way to actually conduct your sex life".

Assertiveness training for girls would be VVV good IMO, not to do with sexual assault as we are talking about it on the other thread. More to do with having the strength and confidence to say NO to activities they don't want to engage in, or don't enjoy. So you don't have to say yes to giving blowjobs to "make up for" not wanting to have full sex for example. Boys will not die if they don't have sex, and telling them to go and have a wank is always an option. Think there is a real culture of girl's being made to feel responsible for men's sexuality, and lots of consenting going on on the surface, that deep down the girls are uncomfortable with. (Perhaps boys too depending on relationship dynamic). The message that "if s/he pressures you into anything, or s/he dumps you for not touching/fucking him/her, s/he is an arsehole who is not worth keeping" needs to be got out there.

God schools are so prissy about talking about sex aren't they. Our sex education teacher was the RE teacher who would rather have died than refer to sex as anything other than "slap and tickle" or similar.

There are several different scenarios that need to be addressed.

I think any 'toolkit' needs to provide for boys in the role as victim too. Boys do get assaulted by (usually) adult males or older boys sometimes and this is a hard situation to explain. Especially when the perpetrator is likely to be someone they know.

I have two boys who I have tried to educate in this, no-one but themselves and perhaps a doctor is allowed to touch their genitals.

This part of any toolkit could be aimed at both boys and girls perhaps.

Stamping out homophobic bullying - definitely part of the toolkit. (from today's Independent).

Thandeka, if you're suggesting ideas for schools my first thought is that having it delivered by men would make a big difference.

dittany - I do see what you're saying about the assertiveness message putting it back onto the victim - I do but - can't the two go hand in hand at all....

It's so tempting for me to go down that line because I am the sort of person to "shout the odds".

Gosh, it's difficult isn't it because I can totally see how some situations/people just can't do that.

I suppose if there is a big push on campaigning for assertiveness then this gives even more license for boys/men to do things and then say "they didn't complain/shout etc" .

How about a campaign about our rights - right to personal space - right to not be intimitated etc.

I think that somewhere this notion that "nice girls don't shout" has to be countered but then that's part of combatting general sexism.

On the other thread I did like the suggestion of saying "Don't sexually assult me".

WRT to boundaries etc people are always astounded that I don't answer my door to uninvited salespeople etc.

Now really this is not because I think they are going to attack me - but it is my door and it will stay closed if I choose.

So I look through the glass and say "who is it" - they say "ooh come to tell you about our offers about windows/driveway/XYZ".

And I say "I don't open the door to uninivted callers thank you" - well then number of enraged men who have left my doorstep - some shouting and muttering (WTF?!). They seem to feel entitled to my time at an open door way.

Similarly the other day in a check out queue - woman engaged DS 3.0 in chat - he was and didn't understand her and hid! - I am not "apologising" to this woman and getting him to bloody talk to her. For general politeness I did smile and say "oh thanks for talking to my DS but he doesn't want to talk to you - that's ok - he doesn't know you" but I could feel her giving me the look.

So teaching my DS to do what he wants to do in those sorts of situations is my addition to the "toolkit".

OP, what about raising the issue of consent amongst teens. What does consent mean? How do you know if someone is consenting to sexual activity?

Following the thread about sexual abuse between a brother and sister MmeLindt started a thread here asking MNHQ about having a webchat with someone about chid protection issues etc.

Thought it was relevant to link in to here.

The idea that girls should always tell someone (parent, teacher), and that they will be believed and it will be taken seriously, and if appropriate the police will be involved and they will also take it seriously.

However in this current society I think it would be very misleading to tell girls that. So what then?

Boys really need to know the truth about the rape stats, and about supporting victims as well. Bad things might happen to their sisters or friends and they need to know the truth so that they can help rather than hinder. I feel angry that even my lovely DP says he wouldn't know what to do if one friend of his came to him saying another friend had raped her. believe believe believe is the message that needs to get through. Far better to believe initially and risk the teeny percentage chance that it's a lie, than be incredulous or suspicious to a real victim.

It would be good to get girls in a group role playing saying no, go away, i'm going to call the police, whatever you're supposed to say in those situations. I suspect it is easier to say if you've said it out loud before IYSWIM. (I have never said anything like that out loud, I'm an under the breath-mutterer).

trying to teach them a few possible things to say maybe?

I'm also not sure that being assertive would have helped in many of the situations on the others thread. The trick is to get men to stop doing it, isn't it.

How about advice for young men on what to do / who they can talk to if someone they know is sexually harassing/bullying people? The culture of silence around all of this affects boys and men as well, no-one knows what to "do with it". I think it would be useful for young men to know that they can and should tell someone, and who.

Also worth pointing out that much of this behaviour is illegal. It's not just "naughty".

For girls - tricky. I agree that they need to be taught to be assertive - but how to do that when the rest of our culture directs girls to be compliant?