Protect our daughters (and sons)- a "toolkit "

well done Sexed, get that info out there!

Amazing that a site like that is so misleading, isn't it?

Just shows how truly unimportant women are. They can't even be arsed to get our anatomy right.

HerBeatitude- have blogged about this hymen issue here:
sexedukation.wordpress.com/2010/11/17/have-you-got-a-vulva-no-i-drive-a-volkswagen/

is a blog for sex educators.

May help.

Quodlibet yes you have.

It's often struck me on here, when some posters say that they are complimented by white van drivers wolf-whistling them. One doesn't wish to be rude, but I have in the past pointed out that man making comment about your tits/ eyes/ arse/ wolf-whistling does not equate to them admiring you - quite the opposite, you could be anyone - you're just a random cunt that happens to be attached to a woman, and that's how they're seeing you, not the other way round. They're whistling at you to remind you that you're just a cunt and you shouldn't get above yourself by imagining that you might actually be a full human being.

Women should understand this.

You're welcome Adair!

Something else struck me about no means no - in research that was done on young men, they were asked if they said No directly, straight out, if a woman came on to them who they didn't want to shag. They were all horrified by the suggestion - the general gist of the response was - OMG, no, that would be so harsh, you'd feel such a bastard - you'd say "oh, I'm not feeling too well tonight" or, "I've got an important presentation tomorrow" or "I'm still not quite sure I'm ready to see someone else yet after my last girlfriend" or some other excuse to let her down gently.

So even the sex which has been brought up to say No, to express their wishes and desires far more clearly than females are, have difficulty coming straight out and saying NO so baldly. And yet, when they were shown a video where a girl was raped, they all said it wasn't rape, because she didn't say no.

I'm not sure how the researcher's conversation went with them after that. But it's worth pointing out the double standard - they would find it excruciatingly embarrassing to express themselves directly about not wanting sex, they'd want to spare the woman's feelings and not make her feel rejected. And yet, they expected women, who are brought up to feel ten times more pressure to consider other people's feelings than they are, to throw off a lifetime's conditioning at a point where they were most vulnerable and distressed, and come right out with that impossible No.

It really, really struck me and it should be required discussion in a teenage classroom IMO.

Great suggestions so far, I've been thinking a lot about this myself after some recent threads.

How about something along the lines of discussing/opening up with girls in particular why 'receiving sexual attention' doesn't equate to 'you are high value' and a raising of social status, despite eg a lot of music videos perpetrating that myth. It's such a pernicious media myth, and, thinking back to my own teenage years, I think it's one thing that leads girls to accept unwanted sexual attention and not challenge it. We're conditioned that receiving sexual attention should make us feel good and raise our self esteem. The messages are confusing and at that age you're too immature to unpick them. Have I explained that in a way that makes sense?

Herbeautitude, thank you for your 'yes means yes' post:

Absolutely right. Totally true, and totally relevant. Have copied and pasted so I can remember and shoehorn in to any appropriate situation where I am teaching teenagers. Thanks again for the different angle - feel it would be an epiphany for many.

Why isn't it disseminated Thandeka?

Who's in charge of this type fo thing?

Cama - I only found that info a couple of years ago, so 42 for me!

I think that one of the most important thing for girls, is that they actually know about their own bodies and aren't taught myths... I kind of assumed that seeing as how this is now up to date research, it would have been disseminated everywhere and our children's generation would know this - but judging by that website, that's not the case.

HerBeatitude...
Had no idea about this... 37 years of ignorance about my own body. I am not alone, am I?

Oh NO NO NO

That likeitis site, talks about the hymen breaking when penetration takes place.

How do we let them know about the hymen being a patriarchal invention when it's really the vaginal corona

Re no means no - I increasingly think that this is quite a dangerous slogan, as it puts the onus on girls and women to say no, when we are actually brought up in a culture which socialises us never to say no, straight out. We're taught to say "I'd rather not..." "If you don't mind" "do you think we could" "do you want to" etc. - we suggest and try to lead, hoping that others will take us up on our suggestions, anything but come right out and state our wishes.

So I think there should be much more emphasis on "yes means yes" - and that talks to the boys more than the girls - is she saying yes? Is she wanting you? Is she showing you she's wanting you? Is she arching herself towards you, is she kissing you back, are her arms around you, is she pressing herslef against you, is she caressing your hair, neck, back, bum? If she isn't, what is she doing? Is she trying to pull away from you? Is she still and frozen? Is she saying and doing nothing? Does she seem detached? Does she seem as if she's not really connecting with you? ARE YOU SURE SHE WANTS YOU TO DO THE THINGS YOU ARE DOING? And if you're not - STOP doing them. Check with her if she's happy - not in a coercive, forceful way, giving her no choice but to say "it's OK" - in a way that gives her the opportunity to ACTIVELY show you that she wants you, not just that she doesn't know how to tell you she doesn't want you, without hurting your feelings, upsetting you or making you angry.

It's about making the boys feel responsible for any coercion or force that might take place, not put that responsibility onto the girls. Because they are more likely to be rape/ sexual assault perpetrators and girls are more likely to be rape/ sexual assault victims. So both sides need to understand very clearly, where lies the responsibility for ensuring that rape or sexual assault does't happen - with the most likely perpetrators.

Oops, I forgot my point OP.

I think 'scenarios' are a good way to handle this. And multiple choice quizzes about what the correct thing to do is.

Good luck with your toolkit, I think it is a great idea.

earwicga, that on its own would not be enough. A child could give consent to an adult to inappropriately touch them.

I have told my DC that adults know that it is illegal to touch a child in an inappropriate way.

A scenario I have used is swimming lessons and the fact that I have to sign a form to give consent to the teacher to 'touch' their bodies. I have then talked about the scenario where the same teacher comes into the changing rooms and 'touches' them (I used the scenario of the teacher smacking DD on her bare bottom and saying what a lovely peachy bottom she has). DD has talked though her response to this - 'yes, well I'll keep it to myself, thank you very much'. She is 9 and quite a bright girl but she didn't see the need to take the situation any further by telling anyone else about the incident. I stressed to her that it is very important to tell someone (me) about any such things because that individual had broken the law. I then went on to talk about what if 'random family member' touched her inappropriately. She said 'but what if I don't mind?'. I then reinforced that they were breaking the law and so she should mind . Of course she was talking about her friend playing with her hair without first asking permission .

How's it going OP?

Isn't the basic thing just to bring up children from young to use informed consent regarding theirs and other people's bodies?

Thandeka - how about something on breastfeeding - inspired by this thread post today at 16:02.

The breast's primary function = breastfeeding. Explain that we are in a formula feeding culture and give the info on the new laws about ensuring people can't be told to stop BF etc.

Something I've been thinking about for a while is the way we try and battle sexual pressure/coercion but then turn straight round and bow to other types of pressure/coercion, maybe showing double standards and not demonstrating how to be assertive. That's not to advocate assertiveness awareness only in case a dd/ds is a victim but also in case they're ever tempted to become a perpetrator, they've seen how to work a situation out another way without the need to grab control.

For instance the 'be polite/be obedient' to older people/people in suits/mothers with babies/your boss/your partner etc is fine to teach kids but surely if they know when to draw the line about 'non-sexual' problems then those skills can possibly translate to sexual assault too. Ie, if your friend is pressuring you to do something whether it be to look after their kids or to sleep with your girlfriend it's ok to say no and if they press harder you talk to them/end the friendship if needs be.

Since thinking about this I've ended a couple of friendships and had quite a few 'avoidable' rows with my parents/siblings because I realised how many everyday things I got guilt-tripped into doing which weren't drastically upsetting me but were showing dd 'that's how you get what you want and the other person won't stop you'.

One very recent example of this was dd and I were going down an escalator at a Tube station and because dd had just had an ear infection she was feeling quite wobbly and wanted to stand next to me, holding my hand and the rail, blocking people from zipping past us. One very smart older 'gentleman' came behind her and even though I apologised when we didn't move he started to take her hand off the rail so he could push past. It would have been easy for me to apologise and move dd to one side to 'be polite' but (as I was stressed anyway) I said in a very loud voice (and a 'talking to a 3-year old' voice I hadn't intended) "NO! We don't touch people without their permission! Take your hand OFF my daughter and keep it to yourself!" (I'll admit to not being the most eloquent). It was only a long while afterwards I realised how that message could translate to later life and I hope it does.

Oops, long message but basically I hope the 'war' on coercion/assault covers everything, not only rape.

asking your children/teens if they have ever been aware of sexual assault taking place (to a friend/to themselves/witnessing it happening to a stranger) getting them to verbalise what they saw and to label it as sexual assault.

"Teach your child respect, personal space, boundaries" WRT to themself and others .

Not sure about the "no means no" thing. This needs to be in there, but some people are too shocked/scared/worried to say "no" out loud. Better to teach that if there is an doubt in their mind that the other person is happy and involved, it is wrong to press on with what you're doing. Signs someone is unhappy for instance: 1) not reciprocating touching/kissing 2) being "frozen" 3) moving themselves away from you 4) removing your hand etc from their body 5) looking unhappy/in pain/upset 6) saying out loud that they are unhappy with the situation, e.g. "no","stop" or "I don't like it".