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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Should women / carers be paid for caring for their 'own' kids?

107 replies

AdelaofBlois · 07/11/2010 12:35

Had a nice argumentative (if in this climate purely hypothetical) discussion last night about whether carers should be paid for looking after their children. Three arguments ran thus:

  1. Familial childcare is, even if not done by mothers, predominantly women's work. It is time consuming, skilled and exhausting, contributes enormously in both the short and long term to the economy, yet the women doing it receive no monetary recognition, and indeed risk their security to do so. Financial recognition of the work was a long-standing, although now underplayed, aim of the women's movement.
  1. That, until men are equally represented in caring roles, the payment would represent further legal incentive for women to stay at home, which may not necessarily be about their choice. If set at a level that altered decisions it would act as a state scheme to force women back into the home, if too low simply be a drain on resources which creates the same ideological pressure.
  1. (where I got bogged down as the wine took effect Sad) Payment would have to be set against standards because the justification would be value to society. It would seem unfair to pay fulltime carers and not their employed counterparts unless we were willing for the state to say that in all circumstances SAHPs were 'best'. It would also seem unfair to pay 'poor' parents (at the far end of the scale, say abusive ones) money, but monitoring this would involve the state in childcare in a way hitherto unthought of. The whole thing would be a mechanism for enforcing standards of childcare (HE who pays the piper) which reflected neither women's choices nor a feminist outlook.

Conversation drifts off onto CBeebies crushes, this writer feeling Smile but Confused.

Basically, just wondered what others thought. Posted here because don't want this to be the SAHM vs WOHM women-hating discussion it might become elsewhere.

OP posts:
pointydog · 07/11/2010 14:12

Yes, if the state (or an employer) is going to pay people for raising their children, then they have every right to set standards that must be met.

colditz · 07/11/2010 13:41

Many women would refuse payment and raise their child as they saw fit, rather than having to conform to the ridiculous bumptious paperwork filling that all other 'child care providers' have to deal with. I know I would.

AdelaofBlois · 07/11/2010 13:35

But the state does want people to look after children, otherwise it would fund free 7-day nursery care, and it benefits from it.

I don't think the logistics would be beyond the wit of woman, and are in someways distinct (a good idea but impractical is different form a bad idea) although would accept that they would involve judgments about 'good' care, which is why I wonder whether the problem is now really about the complexities of childcare arrangements. And I think everyone was careful to think of carers NOT just parents.

OP posts:
pointydog · 07/11/2010 13:28

No. People should be paid to carry out a job that someone else wants them to do.

I don't want the state to be paying out cash so that people can stay at home with their own children.

It would be logistically impossible to organise.

And what would people be paid for exactly? Would workin gparents be entitled to some money if they cared for their children for part of the day? Would they be entitled to money for looking after their children in the evening and night?

AdelaofBlois · 07/11/2010 13:23

Because one of the things that seemed to emerge was that the moral case in (1) was as irrefutable now as ever, but that the variety of family set-ups which 'now' exist created problems in a way they didn't to, for example, Marilyn French, who assumed that one parent would be looking after children and doing the dishes, and that that would be the woman because their love for children was different.

OP posts:
AdelaofBlois · 07/11/2010 13:10

As I said, this discussion in today's climate was hypothetical (one reason I didn't put it on the politics thread).

Does it matter? What about from general taxation-in which case it in effect forces working partners to provide independent recognition of their partner's childcare? Would it be more theoretically justifiable if pruned from defence but not SureStart? Where are your limits?

Sorry, as I said, this is not a 'proposal' to discuss, but a puzzle to me. As far as it has a practical application it's within feminist circles-why has a 'traditional demand been heard so little lately? And is this really due to concerns over funding, or over the idea itself?

OP posts:
PortoTreasonAndPlot · 07/11/2010 13:06

Um, where is the money going to come from?

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