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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Should women / carers be paid for caring for their 'own' kids?

107 replies

AdelaofBlois · 07/11/2010 12:35

Had a nice argumentative (if in this climate purely hypothetical) discussion last night about whether carers should be paid for looking after their children. Three arguments ran thus:

  1. Familial childcare is, even if not done by mothers, predominantly women's work. It is time consuming, skilled and exhausting, contributes enormously in both the short and long term to the economy, yet the women doing it receive no monetary recognition, and indeed risk their security to do so. Financial recognition of the work was a long-standing, although now underplayed, aim of the women's movement.
  1. That, until men are equally represented in caring roles, the payment would represent further legal incentive for women to stay at home, which may not necessarily be about their choice. If set at a level that altered decisions it would act as a state scheme to force women back into the home, if too low simply be a drain on resources which creates the same ideological pressure.
  1. (where I got bogged down as the wine took effect Sad) Payment would have to be set against standards because the justification would be value to society. It would seem unfair to pay fulltime carers and not their employed counterparts unless we were willing for the state to say that in all circumstances SAHPs were 'best'. It would also seem unfair to pay 'poor' parents (at the far end of the scale, say abusive ones) money, but monitoring this would involve the state in childcare in a way hitherto unthought of. The whole thing would be a mechanism for enforcing standards of childcare (HE who pays the piper) which reflected neither women's choices nor a feminist outlook.

Conversation drifts off onto CBeebies crushes, this writer feeling Smile but Confused.

Basically, just wondered what others thought. Posted here because don't want this to be the SAHM vs WOHM women-hating discussion it might become elsewhere.

OP posts:
Tortington · 08/11/2010 18:54

well that should be SAHP.Grin

moraldisorder · 08/11/2010 18:52

well yes indeed! Although i said SAH'M' so can I be excused for my potitical faux pas?

Tortington · 08/11/2010 18:42

he or SHE Wink

moraldisorder · 08/11/2010 18:40

This is daft..

If you are a SAHM and your partner supports you then technically he is paying your wage in return for you keeping home, caring for the kids, enabling him to do overtime etc etc. He may not be paying you a wage but he is paying your living/ lifestyle expenses.

If you are a single SAHM then the government pays your wages by HB, CB, IS, free school dinners etc etc

So you are paid for being a SAHM or carer...

That said, I do think carers should be paid more because it does save the government a lot of money that they would otherwise have to pay nurses.

ISNT · 08/11/2010 18:13

I would work, rather than be a SAHM, in answer to the question earlier. Much of the language and comments keep coming back to the perception that looking after your own children is not real work. And that's not right. I don't know how you get it recognised by society. The language needs changing, maybe. SAHM, emphasis is on the being at home, rather than what you are doing while you are there IYSWIM.

Tortington · 08/11/2010 16:30

PMSL Wink

moraldisorder · 08/11/2010 16:17

Probably Custardo. What if you have a pet? Do you get bonuses for walking the dog? Ironing your husbands shirts?

Is there a bonus structure linked to exceeding 5 of your families 5 a day?

Tortington · 08/11/2010 16:15

do mums of twins get more?

Tortington · 08/11/2010 16:14

i suppose it depends on the job?

by job i meant outside the home.

i did later use the appropriate accornyms.

dont get hung up on the word job, i am not saying that sahms don't work.

moraldisorder · 08/11/2010 16:12

Oh come on, its ridiculous. Anyway, its never going to happen so im not going to get my knickers in a twist anymore.

Tortington · 08/11/2010 16:12

indeed dinosaur, this was alluded to in the OP.

a whole new industry could arise ala the NHS, parent monitors, area parent trusts - oooh lots of new quangos

but of course the same kind of monitoring would have to take place to account for the spending of public funds.

tell you something, looking back at my many years, i'm glad that i wasn't monitored and appraised on my performance

mathanxiety · 08/11/2010 16:10

Is work at home not work then?

I don't think the payment of a stipend to sahps would result in any kind of a mass exodus from the paid workplace.

Tortington · 08/11/2010 16:09

have to disagree about the public sector, comparitively it isn't paid as well. i don't think that working in the public sector is a choice. a job is available and people go for it and hope, not exactly a job for life is it?

moraldisorder · 08/11/2010 16:08

Exactly, Custardo. I can't beleieve for a second that anyone believes we should be paid for staying at home with our kids...!! Even though actually many people are due to benefits etc.

Its not like the population is dying out and we need to give people an incentive to breed... Parenting is not charitable, selfless work for the sake of the country.. its basically a selfish thing, no?

You want children, you pay for them!

dinosaur · 08/11/2010 16:07

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This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

Tortington · 08/11/2010 16:06

i did try hard to phrase things incorectly, but the line below i did say that it didn't necessarily mean that being a sahm ins't as good as

i do take on board your point about my taxes paying for others lifestyle choices - good point.

so i shall simply say that i don't think my taxes should pay for this one

Tortington · 08/11/2010 16:04

so who is going to work

when you get paid for staying at home?

mathanxiety · 08/11/2010 16:01

But are you saying that SAHMing is not work if you insist it's not a job?

We do live in a society where what's mine is yours and what's yours is mine. You pay for the health problems of the obese, you pay for the stomach pumping of drunk teenagers, you pay for the quadruple bypasses of smokers and people who spend 40 years hardening their arteries and avoiding exercise. We pay for the education of children whose parents couldn't give two hoots about school. We pay for wars and adventures overseas by the armed forces that hardly anyone supports.

We pay for the lifestyle of anyone who chooses to work in the public sector. It's as much of a lifestyle choice as having children is -- a lot of people are attracted to the public sector, paid by the taxpayer, for the benefits, the working conditions, the perceived fairness towards women, maternity leave, etc. Many higher level public sector employees could make more money in the private sector but they choose the public. And the taxpayer pays.

dinosaur · 08/11/2010 16:01

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justabouttosellakidney · 08/11/2010 15:54

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Tortington · 08/11/2010 15:47

tortoise, i think its becuase i have to pay for your decision and i have to pay for mine

but i pay for mine with a job, so i don't see why i should pay for someone to be a SAHM.

That is completely different from saying that being a SAHM isn't worthwhile.

What it is is a lifestyle CHOICE. esp in this imaginary utopia we are discussing.

we don't live in a society where whats mine is yours and whats your is mine, there is little community and society built on capitalism is about making money to pay for lifestyle goods and services. Therefore if YOU choose the lifestyle where you think its the best choice for you and your family that you stay home. You pay for it. I can't see why i should WOTH so you can SAH?

mathanxiety · 08/11/2010 15:20

When free maternity care, and free children's health care for minors up to age 16 was proposed in Ireland in the early 50s (the Mother and Child Scheme) conservative groups, mainly the Catholic Church and elements of the medical profession, came up with exactly the same arguments against it that many posters here have used against paying sahps a stipend -- the it represented unwarranted government interference in the family, in the prerogatives and responsibilities of the family; I think the phrase 'socialised medicine' was used.

(Riven: I meant 'worthy' in quotation marks -- a patronising use of the word. Just a mother, as you said)

I also think that the phenomenon of women working for free in the home makes it difficult for employed women to counter the notion that their work deserves equal pay, especially in the so-called caring professions, where they deal with children or the sick.

sarah293 · 08/11/2010 09:22

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MumInBeds · 08/11/2010 09:03

Children have care needs, some disabled and sick people have additional care needs at varying levels.

IMHO the support for both should be a combination of financial and practical.

For most children this is already the case,
money (CB and tax credits) towards their care,
provision of advice and social support (children's centres, mumsnet, toddler groups)
and help towards educating a child (pre-school, school, collage).

For people with additional needs this support doesn't always fit so a more tailored approach needs to be used and this is where I think we fall down.

sarah293 · 08/11/2010 08:53

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