"What about the men that get raped?"

Sorry for multiple posts. Of course some men will have this fear, but it's not entrenched in the mind of every male in the country, far from it. While for women it is.

That's why the march is for women IMO.

OTOH if there was a march which was against street violence, then I would expect to see women, women, children, grandparents, everyone. And there are such marches and they do include everyone.

So what's the problem?

I do not know a single man who has changed his route home because of fear of sexual assault, I just do not believe that this is something men commonly do. Whereas it is something the vast majority off women do - and the ones who don't usually feel nervous about it.

That is what this march is about, surely.

I didn't mean to offend anyone yesterday, will try and clarify what I meant.

That reclaim the night is, I think, about teh fact that women feel unsafe out alone after dark. And that is because of a whole range of things that happen, from shouting and catcalls and one end of the spectrum to rape and murder at the other end.

So my "it's rare" comment was meant comparatively - it is very common for women to have experienced flashing, been followed, wanked at. I think people would struggle to find a woman who has not had offensive sexual tihngs said/shouted to her unprovoked. While comparitively few have experienced stranger rape.

So this march is about the whole range of behaviour that some men display that make women fearful. It is intimidating to be flashed at or have obscenities shouted by a group of men when you are by yourself, all of those things add to a general feeling of discomfort that many/most women feel when they are out by themselves after dark.

I just do not believe that men who are out after dark are similarly wary of sexually inappropriate / threatening / attack things happening to them. Men do not go around worrying about being sexually harassed. So I don't understand why the march needs to be for men as well?

ah , i see now what you meant frosty.

sorry elephants, didn't realise that. i presumed it was a support group aswell as doing the march.

x-post with everyone. Agree with LRD.

Also - RTN is not a support group, it is both a show of strength of women walking the streets at night (something many are too scared to do usually), and a great experience for those women involved to feel the freedom and solidarity of walking with other women.

I don't want to get into generalising about this individual man too much. But in answer to MrsArchie - I think if I went to e.g. a support group for ethnic minority women and was turned away for being white, I would get that. I'm not sure where you get this idea that all women are welcome everywhere.

Math, how can you possibly know that?

The OP started out by asking what she should say to this man's questions. They were questions, not him insisting him right to go.

Surely we should give him the benefit of the doubt, explain why his presence might upset people marching even if he thinks he has good intentions, and suggest he goes and sorts out his own men's march if he wants to do so.

I would be thoroughly supportive of men marching to raise awareness/challenge the stigma of domestic violence against men.

aswell as the reasons others have given. (women who have been raped having to share their personal space and their chance to take back their freedom with men. and some men who may be rapists at that. also the fact that some quite nasty men may use that as a chance to get their kicks.

to me the man in the OP sounds like a child whingeing "aww, but i want some!!"

wrt mrsarchie, yes of course you are entitled to an opinion based based on the OP but threads tend to move on a bit and things get discussed further. if you had read on you would see why some posters don't feel this man should be included in the march. this isn't a support group for male victims of rape the same way a support group for alcoholics wouldn't be appropriate for someone with cleptomania.

Stayfrosty -- I agree with your last post.

Just on an individual level about this particular man -- he obviously has some major problem with the idea that men and women are equal. To him it's just some feminist proposition. Hence the assertion that men are victims too. This is a man who feels threatened by assertive women.

BOOMyhoo - that is exactly why I haven't been on mumsnet for several months. In response to the original post am I not entitled to an opinion?

mrsarchie, perhaps you should read all the posts.

In response to the original post, rape is rape and it, along with domestic violence, does not discriminate against age, sex, creed, religion or anything else.

Not read all the posts (indeed not been on MN for a while) but in response to those who feel that male victims of rape should form their own support groups, what a jolly good job no one says that to a woman who is perceived to not fit in with a demographic of a 'support' group.

Rape is rape.

agree frosty wrt the fear of rape in prison mainly affects men but i have to disagree with your likening it to warning women not to go out/be alone at night/ to get taxis etc. men (as a whole)aren't warned not to commit crimes for fear of rape in prison, men aren't being warned to limit their freedoms in order to avoid rape. once again women are being held somewhat responsible for their rape but men aren't being told that they can do something to prevent it.

AGhh,I,have, so,much,more,to,say,but,space,bar,is sticking!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry about the 'fuck off' - I'm tired and getting pissed off.

Really StayFrosty. You think that all female victims are the way you think men should be?

And fuck off with your 'genuine victim' turn of phrase. A victim is a victim.

But why would he being a victim of abuse, mean he would be defensive or hostile to women organising against violence directed against them Earwicga? Would he be justified in feeling aggrieved about not being invited to a march about violence against muslims, or black people?

Does anyone else remember the New Cross fire? It happened in the eighties and 14 (or was it 16?) young black people burned to death, most of them teenagers. It was massively controversial because it happened at a loud party, just at the time of the riots, the NF or BNP were active in that area at the time, all very bad. There was a massive march and I remember at the time the huge row about whether white people should go on it or not, whether they were invited, or whether this was just about black people protesting about racist violence. And if white people going along was supportive, or muscling in. Can't remember the upshot, but it seems to me to be similar. If people are marching against violence against their particular group and they don't want you there, it is unbelievably crass to believe tht you have the right to be there anyway. It doesn't mean they don't feel sorry for you when you are the victim of violence, it means they want to focus attention on the specific social systemic nature of the violence to which they are subject.