Is it non-feminist to wear make-up?

dittany - have you got any decent links that i can use to 'inform' young teens about the choices they make wrt clothes etc? ideally i'm looking for something young and funky and not sounding like their mother.

Dittany, I see your point, but I think outlawing men looking appreciatively at a pretty young thing is going to be a tricky one to enforce (and not even one that all women would want enforced, unreconstructed reactionaries that some are ). And I do think the trouser suits can be more malicious than the dribblers, so I worry about them equally!

madwoman - you tart!!

sticky - i wore tinted lip salve once (not even gloss, flipping burt's bees that i hadn't realised was tinted when i bought it) and dh peered at me anxiously and said 'what are you all dolled up for?' as though he'd forgotten we had a Very Important Date.

it's not like i frighten small children on a regular basis...

and on the other side, early in our relationship I remember going out with dp and for once wearing make-up. He hadn't commented so I said "oy, do you like the make-up, I made an effort! Appreciate!" and he said "do you honestly expect me to notice that your eyelashes had slightly changed colour?"

I realised then he wasn't especially interested in going out with a dolly bird. Thank god for men like him, I can forget the "girls should make the most of themselves" types most of the time!

Don't worry - my nails are not pretty - they are black and chipped right now (party last night).

Clean, short, unpainted but well-groomed nails are better than talons (and I expect clean short well-groomed nails on men too, that's definitely an instance where women have more choices but no more expectations).

madwoman - if I knew where to buy cotton sacks I would probably be seen in one from time to time. While I was typing I was thinking - they sound comfy. Perhaps in a pinstripe I could get away with it?!

tbh, if I do a good job in a cotton sack, then I think the client's happier than if I do a shit job done up to the nines. Probably I come out somewhere in the middle on both counts!

I do find it almost anti feminist, too, where some of my older and more militantly no-make-up-always-trouser-suited colleagues are REALLY anti the younger ones in short skirts, tight tops and lots of make-up. Should they not have the right to "flaunt it" if they want to (if they can bear the older male partners dribbling on them, that is. Eeuw!)

belt? i have to buy a belt?

A cotton sack could be very flattering if accessorised approproriately - maybe with a waist cinching belt, for example?

oh, god trills, now i'm at an even greater level of anxiety.

they are bound to co-ordinate their nails, too, aren't they? that hadn't even occurred to me.

i never paint my fingernails. i paint my toenails in the summer when i remember.

Actually yes that's a good point men about men and make up.

Can think (off top of my head) of a couple in the public eye who wear make up..Noel Fielding and Russell Brand spring to mind immediately, there's probably more. Robert Smith was another one of course, and Perry Farrell..dunno if they still do though!

As for the question of men noticing make up..some certainly do. I had a boyfriend who would always comment positively if I wore it (I don't always) which surprised me.

Oh, I'm washed and clean, with comfortable clothes that are neat and appropriate for my job.
Much the same rules I imposed on my children.

sticky - i have been known to wear my 7yos multi-coloured hair bobbles. to work. in my defence, my hair is very scruffy curly and you can't really see them...

no cotton sacks though. honest.

I think it's odd that women who decorate themselves and wear attractive clothing still fuss disapprovingly about other, younger females in short skirts and sexy outfits.
It's all under the same umbrella of choice for me.

I feel that wearing makeup is neither feminist nor non-feminist.

Expecting/requiring/judging others based on their decisions to wear/not wear make up would be anti-feminist.

I am actually guilty of the above to a small degree but I am trying not to, however I am not giving up my mascara or my option to coordinate my nail varnish with my outfit.

No not offended at all madwoman :).

I've thought about this too.

The trouble is if you're going to say you can't wear make-up or try to make yourself look nice, then where do you draw the line? The logical extension is that all women should fall out of bed in the morning and go out unwashed with matted hair and wearing rags so as not to be "making an effort to please men" etc.

So the way I see it is it is a natural human thing to want to tart yourself up a bit and present yourself in a way that makes you feel comfortable/as attractive as you can be, according to your own style, and men do do this too. Throughout history in many societies men have worn make-up just as women have, and they still tend to shave/primp their facial hair, think about their clothes and so on.

And I honestly don't think most women wear make-up "for men" or that most men really notice or care.

I agree there's a problem if you can never seen without make-up or if you're doing it because you feel you have to conform to an ideal of female perfection. I also think cosmetic surgery is a worry, because if your need to look a certain way has reached the point where you actually want to get sliced up and physically harmed, that seems excessive to me.

So with all these thoughts I wear make-up (sometimes) and am a feminist.

janos - i was being a little tongue ion cheek - hope i didn't offend.

goblin - mm, yes. that's my current issue - women. i've got the chance to go for a new job (i never wear make-up to work despite being in a heavily customer-service oriented role - to the bemusement of my boss, who frequently espouses the wish to 'make me over'... the customers don't give a monkeys) but i suspect strongly that i wouldn't get it if i turned up groomed but not made-up. (it's not for clarins, lol) it's in what i suspect is a really conservative area, all coiffed hair and matching shoes/ bags with 'interesting' scarves and jewellery adorning the usual workforce.

i'm clean, i'm tidy (i sometimes even put a necklace on, but then fret it doesn't match the earrings i wear every day) and i could do the job backwards, standing on my head. do i compromise and polish up for a bit to get the job? would i in fact not get the job anyway because i'd be feeling (and acting) like a fraud?

dilemma.

Yes, I have heard similar Goblinchild.

I'm very much of the opinion that that women can wear what they like, make up or no and should not be judged on it. I really dislike hearing the sort of thing you describe...and it's generally done with no self awareness, either.

Hi

I wear make up to make myself feel better but am still a feminist first and foremost. I try to equate it with the fact that my husband has to shave every day cos it makes him feel better.

Totally with Jessinavalon.

'I've never had much time for the type of man who expects women to look like dainty, decorative objets either tho.'

No, at work it's the women who think I'm odd for not wearing makeup, and the mothers.
They're the ones that squeak at me about it, and ask me why.

Going to a (then) Big-6 accountancy firm recruitment conference and being told that "women who wear make-up earn on average 15% more than women who don't" made me (a) cross (b) stick up my hand and ask had the same research been done for men who wear make-up (c) uneasy about make up ever since.

It's a question of degree isn't it? I don't wear a cotton sack and tie my hair back with an elastic band, neither do I wear mini skirts and think about mascara all day. So long as you're sure of your own motivations and are happy, seems OK to wear what you like?

I don't feel inadequate madwoman..I like wearing it (the process of putting it on, creating a face etc)

I certainly don't feel I 'have' to.

I've never had much time for the type of man who expects women to look like dainty, decorative objets either tho.

make-up makes me feel false. it erases my identity and creates a sort of 'almost-me but not-quite' spectre.

i feel like a fraud when i wear it, so generally only wear it to conform - one christmas party a year and weddings... i find i'm unable to speak or act naturally...

you have to ask why it makes you feel more confident, i think. i'd ask if you felt inadequate