Is it non-feminist to wear make-up?

I do wear a small amount of make-up because I have bad skin but do see it as problematic - like dying my hair etc because it encourages the women around me and my daughter presumably to do the same.

It becomes the norm of what women look like and do - just as all the Hollywood actresses over a certain age now look the same because of their in-group plastic surgery fixation.

I dont know how to square these things however - my own desire to wear a small amount of it and yet my feeling that actually its not helpful.

I agree that lewd comments, touching or gestures would constitute harassment.
But looking with appreciation at a woman dressed to attract?
It's her choice to present herself how she chooses, and to attract attention for her appearance.

Men have worn make-up and wigs in the past, presume that was a social status indicator.

Dilated pupils make the eyes look darker, also mimic a woman in a heightened sexual state. Perhaps that is the pyschology behind it.

Looking at a woman with appreciation is harassment? Even if the female in question enjoys and encourages the attention?

'make the most of herself' ?

i don't understand. if she is happy, and wants to go out without make-up, why are you encouraging her (forcing her?) to conform with her peer group? are you not teaching her that she is an individual, and can make those decisions herself?

do you think that encouraging her to wear make up when she is dealing with skin break outs could be undermining her confidence? even worsening the breakouts>

Do the girls see it as sexual harassment, or do they see it as empowering, flaunting what they are?
With sad old men dribbling over the unattainable?

dittany - looking is not sexual harassment. Boys are being boys as much as girls are being girls. I didn't like the 15% comment, but had already noticed at university that there was a much higher percentage of pretty girls in the communication subjects than in the non-communication subjects. Are pretty girls better at communicating because they have more confidence? Are their interlocutors (male or female) more likely to perceive them as better communicators because they register as "nice to look at as well as to talk to", even subconsciously? Were they just picked by dirty old male admissions tutors (btw, my admissions tutor and my director of studies were both female, so hopefully brains had something to do with it!).

The whole looks/make up thing is quite complicated as to what you are buying into.

And TheBigZing - quite. But it's like the "going to the ball" thing - easier just to choose a tux, rather than a ball dress.

and who is setting the bar wrt to what is 'allowed'.

there is an idea that men are not allowed to wear make-up (by other men) because it diminishes their power/ masculinity by making them more feminine. feminine being 'less than' rather than 'equal to' masculine, obv. diminishing male power not encouraged.

I consider myself a feminist and wear makeup every day. What does freak me out a bit is that some men I know think women who wear makeup are cheap and it should be discouraged. It's like a control thing. If their wife wears makeup she will become more attractive to other men.

No I'm not joking, if she is going out with her peers and they are all dolled up I do encourage her to make the most of herself, don't see anything wrong with that. It's only recently she has questioned wearing make-up, although she has never been very interested in fashion. If she does want to reject the wearing of make-up etc I am sure she will and I will respect that.

I wouldn't consider myself a true feminist in the 1960's sense of rejecting men and not wearing make-up/shaving armpits etc, although they did have an influence on me, growing up. I do live my life as a single woman but enjoy male company.

the big zing - that's really the point - it's about pressure to conform to notions of femininity or masculinity.

I remember a Pyschology lecturer telling me the apparent psychology behind women wearing make-up.

Younger people have big eyes, fuller lips, pink cheeks and fresh skin. Young = healthy, fertile. As in good mating stock Older people tend to have thinner lips, their eyes appear smaller, and their skin appears 'tired'. Therefore, less health, fertile, less likely to bear a child. So therefore, the act of wearing mascara (to make eyes look bigger), lipstick (to make lips look bigger), foundation (to make skin look smoother), and blusher (to make cheeks look more healthy) all originate from men seeking a good mate. And women wanting to appear a good, healthy mate. All in the sub-conscious, obviously.

Although, I wear make-up every day; it makes me feel more confident.

dittany - like the look of gender ads, but more for me, lol

i think i'm looking for the next age group up from pinkstinks - these are girls who are just about to be hit by enormous pressure to appear older than are (12-14) and all the lifestyle stuff that goes with that pressure... so trying to negotiate the bit between child and woman without heading straight for the wonder bra.

Sticky it's the older male partners sexually harassing the young women you should be worried about you know, not the women in trouser suits.

I'd rather young women wore what they wanted to and were confident about dealing with unwanted attention.
Women can be very critical and harassing of other women and their appearance in my experience. Far more distressing and intrusive to me.

Also, could it not be argued that women have greater freedom in this matter than men? What I mean is that most men would not dream of wearing make up because of expectations of masculinity.

A woman can choose not to wear make up and will be able to go about her normal daily life without it being commented on (mostly). A man can choose to wear make up but he is highly likely to be the subject of ridicule from his colleagues, friends, family and probably strangers too. So most men don't really get to choose.

Perhaps men are losing out more than women (in terms of choice) on this issue.

lol witches - do feminists not like men then?
i'll let dh know immediately.

but omg, your child is asking if she has to wear make-up, and you are telling her yes, to hide her breakouts, even though she wants to go out without it?

way to build her confidence.

please tell me you are joking on both counts?

hmmm..personally I rarely wear full make-up..I wear lip-gloss and sometimes eye-liner when I'm in the mood.. actually I don't think I've ever worn a full-face in my entire life apart from my wedding day ..I think its an option if a woman wants to she should and I would not judge her for it...

I wear make-up most days because I look better with it on when I look at myself in the mirror. I don't consider that I wear it to look decorative for men.

I also like the company of men when it suits me so not sure if I am even a feminist.

Reckon DD is, at 16 she asks me why she should have to wear make-up and wants to go out without it. I tell her to put some on if she is going out, her skin is prone to breakouts.

I know I must be being incredibly thick, but could someone please explain to me in what way women wear make-up for men? Especially given that I have personally never come across a man who cared or even seemed to notice whether a woman is wearing any or not?

Don't women wear it to please themselves?

[naive emoticon]

they aren't actually buying - it's an exercise in fashion/ media/ self-awareness type thing...