the use of the word 'alleged'

I don't see any problem with that story...yes it is alleged because he has been arrested following an accusation. At no point does it talk about an 'alleged victim,' or insinuate that the girl .is lying.

If he was charged all the newspapers can print are 10 points including his name, age address, charge, bail conditions, next hearing.

from today - a footballer arrested on suspicion of rape The a-word appears as he has been arrested, but note not charged.

Even when a copper sees an offence being committed, and arrest someone, the caution still must start "I am arresting you on suspicion of...." At least that's what must appear in the pocket book notes.

yes these details MAY de-politicise the process, but are still crucial in securing a conviction.

The 6.5% rate is from when the police are informed. The grading experience is sooo tough that a 58% rate in court isn't so surprising. In fact it sounds quite a modest one.

I thought the rate was far lower Saltatrix.

I would say it is a combination of factors, possibly inadequacy on side of police officers, retraction of cases by the victims in the initial stages and that it is difficult to get enough evidence which can be used in a court of law. When rape cases get to court however they have a 58% conviction rate. The problem is with the difficulty of rape cases getting to court for the reason I have just quickly stated.

If rapes are not difficult to prosecute, dittany, why are the conviction rates so low?

Yes but that's the US - not here.

Rules and attitudes are different.

it's quite surprising that this thread has so many posts and yet we are generating much more heat than light. Not much more forward than 20 or so posts in.suspect this because the 'evidence' ( from media reports quoted) is pretty uneven, and so posters are relying on what they believe, rather than concrete evidences. So, this could become the longest ping-pong game in MN history.

I'm talking about a legal process - that a case may hinge on whether sex was consensual or not and this may change the way it is reported.

Am not talking about 'the issues around conviction rates.

'18 year old allegedly raped while walking home.'

Have you seen that? Because I have never seen that.

Witness appeals are along the lines of ' 18 year old raped on way home from work,'

Add message | Report | Message poster dittany Thu 28-Oct-10 21:12:16
'So we're back to the crap that rape victims lie but every other victim of a reported crime is telling the truth.'

Where has anyone said that? Or even implied it?

Saltatrix - yes that is what I was trying to say

To add to the last part I was referring to when a case first comes to the police not rape cases in their entirety.

It's normally used in a certain manner with reference to the person accused than the victim.

i.e alleged of a crime rather than alleged to be a victim of a crime.

Its normally because being a victim of a crime is generally easier to prove. A person beaten up shows pretty evident signs so there isn't anything alleged about it, just have to prove that x person was the one to do it.

Rape is more difficult to prove it occurred unless there are some other factors. You can say that yes this person has had intercourse but you cannot prove that it was rape. The law is about whether you can prove what you say has occurred I know it sounds cold, but what system could be better?

I don't believe every rape victim lies dittany. Far from it.

I don't think I see in the papers very often things like "an 89 year old woman was allegedly mugged near the park" or "the 15yo boy alleged that he was mugged and his mobile phone taken". I think things are usually reported "89 year old woman mugged near park" "15yo boy robbed on high st" etc. While a rape report would read "18yo was allegedly raped while walking home" etc

But as has already been pointed out, with other assaults and with burglary etc there can be doubt, in exactly the same way.

Many burglaries / muggings are for the insurance, no crime has been committed. But they are not usually described as "alleged burglary" or "alleged mugging". It's just reported "x was mugged in such a spot blah" ie the victim is believed. With rapes it seems to be different that they are reported as "alleged".

That was my point when the Gerrard burglary was raised Commander. I agree with your logic.

I also think you may be seeing something in the syntax of how court copy is written.

I suppose a journalist may write "at the time of the alleged rape.." because the case may hinge on whether sex was consensual or rape - there isn't a question mark over whether intercourse took place.

But writing " at the time of the burglary the defendant was at evensong at his local church," shows that the there is no question as to whether the burglary took place - it is again a question of who dunnit.

Have never thought about this before so may be talking out of my arse. Feel free to tell me that I am

google 'alleged burglary' or 'alleged theft' or whatever and you will see this is used every day.

Really I am not denying there are problemd with the reporting of rape and sexual assaults - I have handled alot of court copy and I have seen it myself.

But on this one - I think you are wrong.

I am sure you don't need to read this but here it is

Joni - i tried searching for a phrase, and that pattern came up (nearly every case that talked about an "alleged victim" was a sexual assault case). I wouldn't think that was a matter for agreeing or not agreeing - you can check for yourself and if you find some other result I'd like to see it.