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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

A thread about annyoing re-writings of history

218 replies

Sakura · 01/10/2010 06:31

Just thinking about how feted male authors/artists/scientists/revolutionaries in our culture and how female equivalents are ignored. Dworkin wrote of how good writing by women is despised, not in a romantic way, but actually despised.

I opened up Sep 27 2010 issue of Newsweek today and saw this enormous 5 page article called Men's lib. IN the first paragraph:

...As the U.S evonomy has transitioned from brawn to brain over the past three decades, a growing number of women have gone off to work....

Immediately this paragraph denies the brawn of domestic drudgery that women have undertaken, the fact that women worked in the factories for a pittance, that they were the cheap labour that drove the industrial revolution, that they did the back-breaking work of carrying water, hoeing, harvesting and cooking..that today women still get the low-status manual labour and that while men do carry out manual labour, a hell of a lot of men have kept the cushy, light, prestigious jobs for themselves.

In one fell swoop, the sentence denies Herstory with a rewriting of history. How often does this "mistake" happen on a daily basis? Does it serve to brainwash the new generation of men and women that women only started working after the fifties when men finally "allowed" them to Hmm ?

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SinicalSal · 23/10/2011 10:39

Try Karen Armstrong The Gospel According to Woman' for an account of women's treatment throughout the history of the church. Very feminist, very learned.

Thistledew · 23/10/2011 10:31

For anyone interested in women's roles in religion, I think that Islamic Sufism is interesting. Many of it most revered saints are women, and there is a strong history of women writing about Islam and being spiritual leaders from the earliest days. Sufism has a tradition of teaching and exploring Islam through poetry- some women recorded their own, which indicates they were literate at an early stage in history, and some were recorded by male scribes. Interestingly, the oral tradition is seen as very important, so literacy did not mean a particular advantage.

This link gives a taster here

There is a lovely story attributed to Rabi’a al-Adawiyya (if memory serves me correctly): she and a male mystic stopped by the side of a lake to pray. The man, in a demonstration of his mystic powers, placed his prayer mat on the water. Rabi'a looked at him, and threw her mat up in the air, where it hung, suspended. She then said to him "Now you are no better than a fish, and I am no better than a fly, let us pray".

StewieGriffinsMom · 23/10/2011 09:03

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StewieGriffinsMom · 23/10/2011 08:52

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Blackduck · 23/10/2011 08:49

Oh Sad I thought Sakura was back too....

ComradeJing · 23/10/2011 08:45

As mentioned at the start of this thread does anyone know of any good books that are feminist discussions of the bible?

ComradeJing · 23/10/2011 08:44

Brilliant thread :)

StewieGriffinsMom · 22/10/2011 20:55

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AKissIsNotAContract · 22/10/2011 19:53

Great thread, really glad it was bumped.
I've just put in a request on amazon for 'Hidden from History' to be available on kindle. If anyone else is ordering from there can you do so too?

StewieGriffinsMom · 22/10/2011 19:40

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StewieGriffinsMom · 22/10/2011 19:02

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rosy71 · 22/10/2011 18:10

Perhaps I've remembered the wrong author!

StewieGriffinsMom · 22/10/2011 17:07

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StewieGriffinsMom · 22/10/2011 17:06

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rosy71 · 22/10/2011 16:34

There is a very good book called "Hidden From History" by Jill Liddington (I think) which deals with women's invisibility in history.

BibiBatsberg · 22/10/2011 13:44

What a thread! I've just devoured all 9 pages and positively desperate for more knowledge now.

As a woman, throughout my life I have always had this very definate feeling (a belief even) that I am lesser in all things precisely because I was born female.

Messages received in childhood, education, work etc have had a heavy influence on that of course but, strip away all of the emotional layers and I'm left with that feeling of 'will never be as good as a male'

Well, no more thanks to this section and thread. I am a complete ignoramus when it comes to history and women's part in it in particular but always had a huge interest.

The long winter nights will be filled with much interest for me this year!

lovecat · 22/10/2011 10:36

Thank you so much for the bump - this is a fascinating thread!

You can nominate for MN Classics, to keep it 'forever', but that area tends to be reserved for giant boils, pombears and shitty pouffes...Confused

StewieGriffinsMom · 21/10/2011 22:42

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EllaDee · 21/10/2011 21:50

Ooh, is she checking PMs/watching threads? I'm so glad to know that. Smile

KRITIQ · 21/10/2011 21:44

Thanks for the bump up - really interesting contributions here. Lots of food for thought. Has MN got any way to make threads "sticky," or put really good ones in an archive so they don't fall off the cliff?

StewieGriffinsMom · 20/10/2011 10:34

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EllaDee · 20/10/2011 00:12

Oh. Sad

I clicked on this thinking what a brilliant title, saw the OP was sakura and was about to post being thrilled she was back.

Ah well, still nice to have it bumped, thanks SGM.

messyisthenewtidy · 19/10/2011 20:38

Yea -thanks for rebumping thread! The thing that annoys me the most is that I have had to teach MYSELF women's history - because no one bothered to teach me at school. When I asked my history teacher what women did "in the olden days" he just shrugged and said "well I'm sorry to say this but they just looked after the children".

This opinion is SO damaging and the everyday lives of women, from textiles, working in the fields / factories to maternity death rates NEEDS to be taught, not just to girls but to boys too, so they will not turn into the entitled eejits who, like some I have known, have turned to me and said "But women didn't do anything" - Even frikkin Caitlin Moran believes that women did "fuck all" and she's a feminist!

I think that many of us (I certainly did) fall into the patriarchal trap of believing that if it's not an invention or discovery, it's not worthy of reporting and I would get hung up on proving that women did make discoveries and the such to prove that they were worthy of being included, but like Sakura said upthread the "daily life" of how we lived is fascinating and should be studied more.

Actually I've learned tonnes on women's history from the feminist section, so thanks! [hwink]

wicketkeeper · 19/10/2011 14:47

Thanks for bringing it to our attention Stew.

StewieGriffinsMom · 19/10/2011 12:09

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