Marks and Spencer support new Hooters in Bristol, #2

Jess - these things don't get reported because when they are reported they are not taken seriously. Not because women are just blindly willing to accept harrassment.

I had a brief reply from the EHRC to say that they were 'dealing with the issue' of the hooters ad (the one in Nottingham specifically advertises for 'Hooters girls' and I queried whether this was discriminatory) and would contact me in due course. Sounds like a holding reply, but at least they didn't dismiss it.

And yes, SSAM - I agree with you about the harrassment side of it. Many friends of mine have had guys shout "show us your tits and save us a fiver" or something along those lines when walking near lap dancing clubs (one whilst with her young niece). A London MP I heard speak a couple of years ago said she had it shouted at her whilst she was on the way to her mosque to pray and she was modestly dressed and wearing a headscarf.

These things don't get reported because women just put up with it.

Julian Mills was on radio 5 a couple of weeks ago and he was completely denying that it was anything to do with the way the girls look.

It's all about the owls apparently!

I'd be interested to know what will happen to the pregnant waitress when her bump does start to show. Despite what the company will claim, I doubt very much that they would want a pregnant waitress on display. It doesn't exactly fit with the image, does it!

She'll probably be offered a job out the back.

THat's it Jess. The Boss is wealthier than the Manager, so that makes what he does ok??? The manager was just doing an intensive, stupid version of what the boss does with his business i.e treat women as objects not worthy of basic respect.
IT was ironic that the boss could behave all haughty when it was his business that put the idea in the managers head in the first place

That was just a clip though. It will be interesting to see the whole programme, thanks for the link.

And it's made the Daily Mail!

I posted some clips from that show a few days ago before I knew that it was to be broadcast over here.

The bits I saw were pretty ironic. The boss admonishes the franchise owner for not treating the girls with enough respect at one point. He isn't treating them with respect but I would argue that any chain that reduces women to a set of 'hooters' isn't really in a position to judge!

I thought that article by Liz Jones was very good. I normally can't stand her or the Daily Mail but I thought her article was spot on.

IT was posted upthread, a link to a clip. IT was V interesting but it painted the boss as a good guy. I think he's a very powerful man and anything he didn't want could have been cut.
FOr exmaple a manager abused the girls, and said he did it because they were "Prima D0nnas". The Boss admonished him and said "They're not ALL PRima Donnas". I was because it implied that some girls were Primadonas (whatever that is) and in those cases it would be okay.
Also, he wasn't horrified at the abuse i.e he didn't sack him, he just told him to say sorry
SO.. it was all meant to make the boss look like a nice reasonable guy, but it kind of backfires when a feminist watches it

Oh, that's a good article. Is Liz Jones someone we are meant to hate? I can never keep up. I've not read her before, but that piece was very much to the point. Good comment about the closure of Boots funnelling people into this work. And rather interesting about her defeated expectation of seeing Eastern European girls. Was she just wrong about the pool of potential workers in that area containing Eastern Europeans? Or could it be that part of the profile for Hooter Girls is that they be the 'all-English' remake of the 'all-American' girlbody?

Liz Jones agrees with you

Eleison
That program is normally very good. Will watch out for it.

This Sunday (10 Oct), 8pm Channel Four:

The TV programme 'Undercover Boss USA' is about the US Hooters chain. No idea what this programme is like but here is what the listing says:

"In the first episode of Undercover Boss USA, Coby Brook, president and CEO of the Hooters restaurant chain, goes on a covert mission to see what it's really like to work for his company."

Perhaps worth watching in case it gives evvidence of the cmopany's sleaziness that would help to mobilise people against it in UK?

Oh, was it something I said?

I only re-posted a comment that had already been placed in the public domain by the original author. Why was this moderated?

seeyouokay porn is quite relevant here beacuse it's all about distorting or obliterating women's true sexuality for profit and the benefit of men. That's the entire premise of Hooters: making money off the backs of women by marketing their canned and packaged sexuality to men

Sethstarkaddersmum, Vbusymum and ElephantsandMiasmas - I have pm'd you all with the latest news from Bristol.

Most of it, with a short blip this am/pm.

What do you think about it?

Just wondering what part of this thread now relates to Hooters?

lovely sakura.

I'd hate to deprive some posters of their most dystopian fears, so i'll be ignoring. Just makes me angry that we can't even talk anymore (hums song)

All porn caters to a male market, so dominatrix porn is marketed to men. There is a miniscule market for female porn, or so I've heard, but I doubt very much it will cater to women's actual sexuality, as opposed to the patriarchally-constructed sexuality imposed upon them by porn (and places like Hooters)

Elephants FOund this quote on that Adonis sight.
"Men as a class enjoy being abused in controlled environments by women, as no power exchange takes place despite the amusing pretense: it is the women who ignore men, not hate them, who incite the patriarchy?s most dystopian fears."　[Richard Leader]

Like most normal people I don't like people being hurt so I can get my kicks, so if that exists, then I'm against that too. But although that particular instance may not be misogynistic, the framework of studios and the people working on it and the money they make is still built on misognyny.

But as you know, a debate on porn wasn't really the point of my post. There is a very interesting porn thread elsewhere.

Well I have took part in derailing this thread so I will stop that for now, I think this is a topic for another thread.

I am on the fence about hooters, does it actually provide anything worthwhile...not really but would it do major damage not really either.

M&S shouldn't be involved in this as they are trying to create an ethical image for themselves but they are a business and they will make decisions based on the business side of things only.

I really doubt they will change their minds too many things have been confirmed the council has allowed it, hooters has already moved in and we don't know the details of the contract so not sure whether M&S could get out of it. Not to mention they have been very quiet probably just hoping it will go away. They won't issue an apology unless they were doing something legally wrong which they weren't. Businesses are very careful with saying the word 'sorry' a bit like politicians.

What about violent porn where the 'victim' is male and/or the the aggressor is female.

"While men have long enjoyed attacking ungrateful women as ?man haters,? the epithet seems more than a little bit silly when transposed onto the printed page?something demanded by the burgeoning market for so-called Men?s Studies materials. It certainly lacks the gravitas required to reflect the widespread injury and social disadvantages that many white males believe they endure on a daily basis. Thus a more scientific-sounding term was needed for ?the hatred of men? and antifeminists crafted one out of their own perverted imagination of antiquity: misandry.

Cobbled together from two generally recognizable Greek components, ?misandry? has the appearance of consequence and refinement. Words with such roots are privileged in our society. They are used by doctors and lawyers, not out of necessity, but as a matter of status: they can view their own image in that mirror of history, standing tall with the great men of the ages. The capital letters we afford to Classical Civilization is an artifact of both racism and sexism. That very same authority, unearned as it is, was harnessed in order to fashion the word misandry. As it is an unfamiliar term to most who encounter it, many automatically assume that it has sound intellectual underpinnings given our society?s expectations for such words and the biases that surround them. This is no accident."

Adonis Mirror

Saltatrix - have a look on that dadsnet thread for starters, there was a big discussion over there.

The context in which the words are used gives the clue as to why they exist.

I see misogyny used to describe:

• current and historic laws that discriminate against women outright

• fundamental religious practices that class women as second-class citizens

• people blaming victims of rape/DV for their own attacks ("asking for it" etc)

• female infanticide in China and S Asia

• violent porn

I see misandry used to describe:

• feminists who oppose those things

It is a word coined by groups of men who can't think of any other way to discredit feminists - who only wish to see misogynistic practices like those I've just listed come to an end.

All they can come up with is "you hate men". Actually no.