Cleavage

Look, I'm 42, with wrinkles, grey hair and a spare tyre, I'm proud of my cleavage!

It is my right to dress in any manner I so choose. Yes a short skirt or low cut top may sometimes affect the manner in which certain men or women view me but I accept this as evidence of their own small-mindedness or insecurity and as an intelligent person I recognise that they are entitled to their own opinions on my dress as I am entitled to mine on theirs. Personally I feel we should celebrate our bodies and not judge each other on how we choose to present them or cover up through fear of any disastrous effects the female form may have on the general public.

It is my right to dress in any manner I so choose. Yes a short skirt or low cut top may sometimes affect the manner in which certain men or women view me but I accept this as evidence of their own small-mindedness or insecurity and as an intelligent person I recognise that they are entitled to their own opinions on my dress as I am entitled to mine on theirs. Personally I feel we should celebrate our bodies and not judge each other on how we choose to present them or cover up through fear of any disastrous effects the undisguised female form may or may not have on the general public.

Well I just had to search youtube to find out about this.... and by crikey... the young lady in question looked lovely. Nice beaming smile and very pretty. And I will readily admit to being more than a little impressed with her cleavage. I am sure this doesnt mean anything to her, and it is kindly meant as a compliment. I dont think it made her look any more or less competent.

I cope with it sometimees by staring fixedly at my interlocutor's chest area (sorry just been on the rarely-used-words thread) until he notices and clocks what he's been doing.

Next time I see one particular offender I am planning to ask if avoiding eye contact is something he has learnt on one of his recent "upskilling" seminars.

FWIW when I am working with teenagers I try my best to cover up the cleavage, because it's a school (shirts and ties all round on the kids), plus I really want them to listen, and I make some allowances for 13 year olds with hormone hockey going on in their heads.

Ah well I don't mind that they might be thinking about sex. It seriously doesn't bother me. Maybe it's just because I am now middle aged and confident in my sexuality and I do occasionally think "yeah, have a good gawp, why don't you, because that's as near as you're going to get to them" but it's in an amused, detached way nowadays, rather than an embarrassed, angry way as it might have been when I was younger.

That's the thing- I know it shouldn't make me feel uncomfortable but it does. I know I've done nothing wrong and it's just my body but there are so many messages out there that promote the message that breasts are all about sex that I suppose when I see 'the flick' I can't help but feel a bit uncomfortable. But I won't change my dress and behaviour, I think people are more than capable of controlling themselves and I really hate that attitude that 'they can't help it, they're only men' that you often hear.

It doesn't make me feel at all uncomfortable.

It's their problem. I'll wear what I like. Most men have got used to the idea that women have breasts by the time they're of an age to get a job and work in an office, so on the whole their eyes don't keep flicking down. They might flick once, at the beginning of a conversation, but after that they concentrate. If they don't, I make it obvious I've noticed (by looking down myself, as if to see what it is that's so interesting) and that concentrates their minds wonderfully.

It does make me uncomfortable if mens' eyes keep flicking down to my chest when we're talking, in the same way being catcalled makes me uncomfortable/humiliated. But in BOTH situations I am completely innocent and should not have to alter my clothing/behaviour to avoid feeling uncomfortable unless I believe men are base creatures that are incapable of repecting women and deserve special dispensation.

Which I don't.

"Maybe some women want that?"

Wht exactly do you mean by that? That some people want to "undermine credibility, compromise respect and distract colleagues"?

Maybe they just want to look nice and don't care if their male colleagues are distracted and don't believe that they are compromising their respect or undermining their credibility?

My male head of dept knows I'm fab. So does my female boss. And if other male colleagues are distracted by my cleavage, that's their problem, not mine. I'll continue to flaunt it because the alternative is to look like Ann Widdecombe and I don't want to look like her. And the thing is, career-wise, if people are going to respect me less and pay me less because they don't like my cleavage, then actually they would respect me and pay me less becuase they didn't like my Ann Widdecombe look either. Women are paid and respected less because they are women, not becuase of what they wear.

Speedy that was just a little thought.

I think we should be allowed to wear whatever we like/feel comfortable in. If men want to look at women they will do so disregarding bulging breasts showing or not.

At worse, a cleavage can be a distraction but I wouldn't say it was a risk. And I wonder why the OP decided to post this in the feminist option.

discussion about womens clothing potentially arousing,and should be curtailed is most certainly feminist issue.

point is discussion,pov arises in any way and feminist topic is open to all.as it should be.

i watched that interview ( and loved it) and i didn't notice the tits tbh.

I guess you can post anything anywhere, but this seems more to be Style and Beauty or whatever it is called, or maybe site stuff. I don't see any feminism here really, and wonder why the OP chose to post here. I try to judge women as I do men in terms of what they say or do. The language in the OP reminds me of some views in the breast/bottle feeding threads all "flashing" and "titillation". I think it is a bit odd to find a bit of cleavage makes you queasy. Especially given that there was nothing on show. That Boris chose to dress like he was going to a funeral is his choice, it doesn't make me think more of him either. I am personally fairly flat chested and I still don't find cleavage upsetting, because a) unless someone is wearing something along the lines of a bikini the amount of flesh shown is pretty rarely anything to get that excited about, b) I really couldn't care less and in any case there are plenty of downsides to having large breasts (weight and back problems, unwanted attention whatever you wear etc).

My previous boss was very well endowed and her colleagues used to laugh at times about how our CEO's eye sometimes appeared to get caught but they all saw it as him being unprofessional rather than anything she was responsible for.

sarinha, I'm definitely well-endowed. You need a new theory.

discussion,agitation,challenging orthodoxy is feminist.adherence to presriptive topics/ideologies is limiting.

Well, maybe I've got my knackered wine-soaked po-face on to night - cheers!

If I went to see the doctor and s/he was wearing a gimpsuit and chains with hole for their nipples, I would admittedly think it was a bit odd, but it wouldn't provoke me to harrass or otherwise be a "risk" (thanks for that nebulous concept OP). It would still be normal human behaviour to respect and keep your distance even if someone is plainly dressed "inappropriately" for work. So what does it matter if a doctor or anyone shows some cleavage? It is normal. Normal clothes show it off.

You're not going to prevent "risk" by dressing in a high-necked top or a floor length poncho or a burka or a suit of armour. For some people, if they can tell you're a woman that's reason enough to hurt you.

Jitter - I have read your other posts on MN and thought they were really interesting and sensible. Do you honestly think that clothing can reduce risk? Because for me that idea sits alongside the idea that assault or catcalling or rape are compliments. How do you explain girls in sober school uniform getting shouted at or groped? Or old ladies? If clothing was the panacea that could prevent this happening, don't you think we would all be wearing whatever-it-was?

on so many levels last post need challenging

there is no implicit or compulsory mn camaraderie,permissable to take piss out of each other

feminist topic is open discursive to all.not a pre-approved topic list.oh eer cant say that missus

hear hear brightlight and whatswrong

Yes, shock horror - woman seen in possession of a pair of breasts.

The MNer in that video is wearing a perfectly modest dress, and, as others have pointed out, her cleavage shows because she happens to be endowed in that area.

What I can't stand is the thought that other women are thinking thoughts about me similar to those the OP voiced.

And isn't this even worse form than a thread about a thread - a thread criticizing the appearance of a MNer?

Definitely posted in the wrong topic - although not sure there's a place for it anywhere.

who is your global we addressed to