Porn

Carmen, I don't know the origins of every product I consume, but I make an effort to:

1. Not consume stuff known to be from unethical industries.
2. Not consume stuff I don't need.
3. Not consume stuff I can produce for myself or source locally from a friend or neighbour.
4. Find out as much as I can about how stuff is consumed so that I can make the ethical possible choice.

And loads of people do this - examining what goes on in the food industry, the clothes industry and so on has been a major focus of left wing and liberal people for a long time, but people have been wary of really thinking about the sex industry.

'I was just thinking if any of my FB friends offered to do that for DH they wouldn't stay on my friend's list for long!'

I met them and they are now on our facebook

'Sunny, I have two questions for you. First, how does this affect you and dh having sex? Is it ever just the two of you, or is there someone else always in your head?

Secondly, how would you feel about your dc knowing about what you do?'

It doesnt effect us having sex at all. We are realistic and admit to finding other people attractive and just share it with ecah other. We also both get turned on by the idea of watching each other with someone else. We are both secure in our marriage to share our fantasies and I know I have a great body, looks etc not to feel threatened and it is something we both enjoy. I dont expect everyone to want to do it but object to people saying things like this should be banned when a lot is consensual.

With regards to the DCS are you going to tell your kids every position you did it in and full details of your sex life? If not then why would this come up? If you mean would I mind my children doing this when they are older then no of course not its something that is up to them and their partners.

Has anyone suggested banning it? I thought this is a discussion on how ethical it is - and it's not. What you do with your webcam isn't actually porn - it's more like group sex. That is a whole different discussion and down to your own ethics and those of the people on the other camera.

Porn that is available on the internet, or on DVDs, or in magazines, however, is not ethical.

I remember when the Chippendales first started and I felt more disempowered than I did before, because I wouldn't play along and pretend I wanted to go or found anything attractive in the whole male stripper thing.

Someoen once hired a stripper for my mum which she did not welcome. Suffice to say that the poor man kept his clothes on and legged it pronto.

Sunny - but do you know ANYTHING about these people? What on earth do you search for to find them? I felt a bit "subversive" looking up an ex of mine on FB out of pure curiosity!

While we could never get rid of porn, many countries have access to pornography but there are few countries where people watch as much pornography as they do in the US and the UK. So it doesn't have to be this way. It isn't in some sense 'natural' - it is just part of our current culture.

But there's a huge amount of amateur porn out there including lesbian erotica. You cannot categorically say that all porn involves abuse. If one woman or two women want to film themselves and get an exhibitionist thrill out of putting that out there, there is no abuse. They are adults exercising free will and doing something they enjoy.

To say that you shouldn't watch something unless you absolutely know for a fact no-one was in any way damaged or hurt or disadvantaged in some way is just nonsense. Do you know the origins of every single service or product you use?

Finally, where is the line between acceptable acting of erotica or love scenes and pornography? Personally, I've worked in theatre and I find auditions for /anything/ degrading. The whole acting business is degrading. You're judged on your looks, voice, how you move. But what can be done? Men suffer the same thing.

I was just thinking if any of my FB friends offered to do that for DH they wouldn't stay on my friend's list for long!

Portofino - No dont know them just met them online. I do it to men to and have them as friends on my facebook. I usually watch out of frame when he does it and vice versa. We also do it with couples and have sex in front of them and vice versa. People make us private videos etc. If you like to do it then why not?

It is very popular and there are loads of couples/women singles that do it. Just because something might not be for one person doesnt mean you should ban it. Its like saying ban swingers because I wouldnt do it and someone might be forced, or ban homosexual sex because I wouldnt do it and someone might be forced. Yeah some might be but that doesnt mean a blanket ban on the whole thing.

I'm afraid I agree with whoever it was. Sorry for typos.

I have to admit I was a bit at that too sunny but I didn't want to admit to being such a prude :)

Absolutely. lifeissweet. And if we look at the opposite if the Johnny Depp and Mr. Darcy types then it isn't porn stars but film icons such as Maryin Monroe. And of course she had a very happy life, didn't she. Or it's images such as Ursual Andress in James Bond or Bo Derek running through the sea in 10.

Must confess to never, ever getting the point of the Chippendales and their like and wanting them to go away.

Sunny, you may be right about there never being a world without porn. But then people said they'd never be a world without slavery, but pretty much by and large it has been eradicated in this country.

Except in the sex industry of course.

I'm afraid with whoever it was who said that interent pron and the like is designed to eb addictive and obsessive.

Sunny, I have two questions for you. First, how does this affect you and dh having sex? Is it ever just the two of you, or is there someone else always in your head?

Secondly, how would you feel about your dc knowing about what you do?

One of the differences between Johnny Depp and a porn star is that while both are sexually objectified in the minds of some people, only one is presented to the world solely as a sexual object.

Sunny, you have friends on FB who will masturbate for your DH (presumably via webcam)!!! Now I am not easily shocked but ! Do you know these people in RL?

I think it's a red herring to start on the 'what about men' argument. Men are not objectified day in and day out as part of our culture. Women may lust over some men, but I actually think your examples of Mr Darcy and Johnny Depp are quite good examples of how it doesn't work both ways. Both of those men are seen as attractive because of virtues other than their looks. They also look completely different. There is no such thing as a standard attractive male look that is sold to men thousands of times a day.

Male models and the chippendales with big muscles and tanned bodies tend not to be what women actually find attractive. We are not fed the same messages about men that we are about women. It is just nowhere near comparable.

Yes, objectifying men or women is bad, but it is done to women in a way that has completely taken over our outlook. Our young people are increasingly lost in a world where young women feel the need to show that they are cool because they are promiscuous and young men expect women to be a certain shape and size and have shaved genitals and big, round breasts. Be under no illusion, porn is doing this to us and it is women, not men, who are coming off worse.

'I think that as a society we're in a really messed up place where the default position is to objectify women.

Maybe if everyone would just stop doing that - if there were no Daily Star, or Nuts, or porn of any kind, in about 20 years maybe there would be a point where home-made porn could be ethical.
Maybe.

But right now, where is the line?'

ROFL if you ever think we will be near to a world with out porn. There will be a world without porn when there isa world without drugs which will be never. Even if you ban them it wont make a difference as it is one of the biggest industries in the world.

'The problem is, sunny, that unless it's stuff you've made yourself, you can never be completely sure that it really is consensual. The people on the other end of a webcam might be doing it for money because they are desperate or because they are being pressured into it by a controlling partner. You ust don't know.
'

Well for a start its free. Loads of the people on there are my friends on facebook and chat to them on msn/phone etc. I think they wouldnt do that if they didnt want to. I know loads of women that are single that masturbate on it as they do it for my husband.

Sexual "objectification" exists for both sexes though. Mention Johnny Depp on MN or Mr Darcy diving into the pond and some women are all afluster. Also the Chippendales and their ilk. Are men considered to be exploited in these cases when they are purely seen as sexual objects? So much is down to nature imho.

On the other hand, it is not right that anyone should have to use their sexuality to earn money. I have watched "female friendly" porn in the past. Nothing violent or outwardly degrading about it, but I do realise I know nothing about the motivations of the people involved.

Not sure it's true that it's all tightly controlled etc on film sets. There are a few films in recent years where it is alleged that the actors weren't just acting the sex scenes. And then there's the whole casting couch issue and the issue of how hard it is for women to get ahead in the film industry. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a fair few female actresses who had done more than they wanted to on screen because they were made to feel their careers depended on it.
Not saying it's the same thing as the porn industry. Just saying I don't think it's unproblematic.

Yes but they are also so often so uneven; lots of naked women, gratuitous shots of breasts, bums, legs etc...