Porn

Again the problem with the voyeurism/exhibitionsism stuff is that it is in the public domain.

If people want to film themselves having sex and then make those films available to other adult viewers who wish to see them and have actively sought them out, that is none of my business.

However once stuff is on the net anybody can access it or be exposed to it.

There are loads of websites for viewing films by streaming, for example, which have links to webcam sites. Why should a person (particularly a teenager) who wants to watch a film be exposed to adverts and picture links showing people flashing their bodies or women sucking penises?

Nobody would think it was right for a child to be allowed to go into a sex shop and be exposed to porn so why is it alright on the internet?

As I said earlier there is a lot of work done to try to keep the referencing system of google being chock full of porn - this operation costs a lot of money. That money is recouped through advertising gain. Why should it be for the people who use the internet for legitimate purposes such as running small businesses to pay to stop the www becoming the world wide porn web.

Sorry to go on about this but I was quite taken aback by the scale of the whole thing and the costs involved. (and lots of this is cluttered up by Mr and Mrs average having fun with their webcams)

IN other words, I think an individual should suppress their whims and desires for the good of the group. So a rich person should pay more taxes to be distributed among the poorer. And a person who was an exhibitionist at heart should try to find another outlet to express themselves if the impact of their exhibitionism would negatively affect society.

Yes, so I suppose the argument is state/society V individual. So if you are more of a socialist/Marxist like me then you believe the individual must cooperate more with society. Others believe individual freedom overrules societal impact.

I believe socialist/Marxist pro-state and society ideologies benefit women as a group.
Capitalist, individualist ideologies benefit men as a group

But people should be free to express their genuine sexuality and if that includes exhibitionism & voyeurism you can't really oppose that.
It's the way that limited view of sexuality has taken over all other variants that I have a problem with. Mixing up genuine sexual kinks with the way we all should be.

"It sends out a message that some people choose to do this ergo most people choose to do this and you as a developing teenager are a prude/jealous/insecure/uptight/boring/constrained if you don't get that."

Ah! When you put it like that...
Of course it shouldn't be open to the general public....hmmm...maybe they could have clubs or something, I don't know..
Anyway, I've realized not paying doesn't exclude coercion. A woman might have a bully of a boyfriend who'd get her to do it for free.

All the amateur/adults consenting stuff just legitimises the rest of it.

It sends out a message that some people choose to do this ergo most people choose to do this and you as a developing teenager are a prude/jealous/insecure/uptight/boring/constrained if you don't get that.

Yes Sakura, good point.
I suppose it's the difference between knitting your own jumper and buying one originating from a sweatshop.

The issue with Youporn and/or the porn industry is that the effects on society are the same, even if the effects on the participants are worlds apart.

if sunny films herself and her friends I have less of a problem with it, personally. As long as no cash transaction is going on then it's totally separate to the porn industry.

"if you do actual admit to liking it or doing something then it makes you a slut/not a decent person etc."

I've never experienced this personally but I know some men do think like that. MOst men don't, though. Stay away from those types of misogynists

What suits women?

I think freedom from economic interdependancy on men would be a good start.
Freedom from monogomy would suit some women but most men would not financially support a woman who got pregnant by another man's baby, so society is set up so that men know the woman they're with is carrying "their" baby. THat's why women who sleep around get called slags and men don't. It's all about control.

I agree, Beachcomber, and with Wukter, too. Sunny, I don't care if you and dh film each other or film your friends, it's the fact that you then put it out into the public domain where it feeds something far more abusive.

BC...great post.

"Because while you may enjoy performance and be happy for their to be sexualised images of women on the side of buses and on magazines in news agents and all over the internet so that when my daughter googles a well known children's clothes shop, pornographic images of women appear, I'm not.

I'm asking for porn users to stop imposing their version of sexuality on my children, who are getting old enough to start developing a sexuality of their own, but are not getting the space in our society to do so."

ITA.

You know Sunny I think my objection to the sort of webcam/amateur porn that you are talking about comes down to 'nothing happens in a vacuum'.

I don't wish to make any judgements about anybody's personal sex life. However as soon as that sex life enters the public domain, as far as I am concerned, I am in a position to object.

I used to work for a subcontractor of google. The job was supposed to entail all sorts of things but it really came down to trying to sort out the referencing so that the www is not overwhelmed with porn.

If it weren't for people like me doing that job then just about every common word ('girl' 'clothes' 'urine' 'glass' 'trousers' 'shoes') would come up with the first 10 pages full of porn sites.

So in order for the internet not to be just one big pornfest, but actually a useful and amazing tool for gaining and sharing knowledge, people like me had to spend their working days cleaning up after the porn makers and consumers flagging up their presence so that kids don't get pictures of women having bottles shoved up their anuses when they put 'glass beads' into a search engine.

Once upon a time it was expected that men should 'look after' any woman they got pregnant. It suited then to have sex be a massive deal for women, it wasn't something she'd do with a light heart and the man could be reasonably sure 'what's his is his'.
Now that expectation doesn't exist as strongly and contraception is much more reliable, so it suits to have women readily available for whatever, as it's only a laugh and why not?

So what suits women?

I agree some areas of gone to far but I still think young women get conflicting messages eg be like this but if you dont then you wont be viewed in the same way but if you do actual admit to liking it or doing something then it makes you a slut/not a decent person etc.

I agree wukter, it's like "o ho ho, you wanted sexual freedom did you. Have this (scat porn, double anal.... )

Maybe in the older generation Sunny. There is definitely a generation gap in this, probably pre and post internet generations.
But what I see around me is that the gold standard of womanhood has changed from chastity to being upfor it all the time.
It's still female sexuality getting squeezed into narrow boxes.

why do you care about the nice girl thing so much. I can honestly say I have never noticed it. I've noticed the double standard, so if one girl slept with loads of boys it was commented on among the boys. But I've never noticed the nice girl thing.

All I am saying is I think the nice girl thing exists and is seen as a thing good girls dont do even in this day and age.

Sakura - I had women in her 30s who saw me in my work uniform who came in to a cafe I worked in. She saw me out sitting at a bar in a mini skirt with a friend not even drunk at 8pm and said I thought you were a nice, married girl! Eh? I was 21! Am I not allowed outside. I would never get that from someone who was my own age at te time they all thought we were mad getting married young but a lot of older people acted like I was doing something amazing or was an exceplinary model of a young woman.

Most people don't get married these days because they can't be bothered or because they got knocked up.
I got married young as well (23)
This has nothing whatsoever to do with porn