Do you think that men are oppressed?

Sakura's alreeady pointed out on the other thread, that nurse and prostitute are the most dangerous jobs.

Oh, and you know that working in a nursing home means literally wiping arses (and being very badly paid) so I am at a loss as to how you think this is an easy job.

"Taking these things into consideration, the fact that men are often forced into working much harder most of the time because they are forced to become a father. These fathers then go out and get WHATEVER JOB THEY CAN."

Forced? Why don't these poor oppressed men use condoms or is contraceptives only for women to worry about. If you don't want children don't have sex or use condoms.

Judging by your spelling I take it you are American? In the UK the laws regarding non payment of child support are pathetic.

yeah you're right HB.

(he said that on another thread btw in case anyone is wondering why I said that)

oh gawd, dn't bother to engage with him, he's an unhappy mysogynist.

He thinks there's a good reason why the word slut was invented and why it's still used.

do stop talking rubbish Bill.
Look, I can make stuff up too:

The moon is actually made of feta cheese.
It is a scandal that nobody talks about it.

Not oppressed? Less and less women are killed every year because of DV funding targeted at them but the level of male deaths has stayed the same because no one is willing to admit women are capable of being abusers which has led to a lack of services.

Men are looked down as potential pedophiles, rapists and murders, yet it is women who most are most often responsible for the deaths of their own children.

We're demonized on the media as not only untrustworthy, murdering rapists but as disposable human beings. A thousand young men men die and it is ignored, a single young woman dies and it is a calamity that gets people tearing up across the nation.

Every time a domestic violence advert plays on the TV, you see battered women and raging men when it is men who are most often KILLED in domestic violence incidents. Not once have I seen a domestic violence ad where the violence was mututal, where the woman threw the first hit or where the woman is the aggressor.

Of course men aren't oppressed because of their gender.

Different groups of men may be oppressed by other men, but that's not because of their gender, unlike the systematic oppression of women.

If men are oppressed by the patriarchy (and there's plenty of evidence to support that contention), why don't they rise up and overthrow it? I'd be happy to help.

If a woman raises kid's on a government paycheck, she's a good mother. If an coerced father doesn't work hard enough to make the child support payments, he's an asshole.

The last half of it got cut off, regarding the paygap. Here:

Taking these things into consideration, the fact that men are often forced into working much harder most of the time because they are forced to become a father. These fathers then go out and get WHATEVER JOB THEY CAN.

This includes working in the merchant navy like my grandfather, he earnt good money and my grandmother lived quite well with her children but he spent alot of time away from home to make that possible.

The reason women earn less on average is because whether you pompous asses want to admit it or not, because they like to be comfortable and flexible and have it all. They won't give up seeing the kids to work on an oil well, risk climbing through a crumbling roofspace to repair half-century old cables that have decayed to the point you can't tell positive from negative.

Some people even think this gap is due to unjust pay difference like plumbers versus day care center operators. When was the last time you heard of a woman doing septic plumbing?

As always men drag themselves through the dirt for their families and they're told they oppressing women because they get paid less sitting in a clean office, teaching in a school or working in a nursing home.

Shakesville. is what I meant.

I recommend Shaksville where the writers actually know what they're talking about. The article linked to is one of many. Hopefully this will stop you making a tit of yourself in the future.

HTH

antimisandry.com/fathers-forum/n-y-high-court-says-mistaken-avowal-fatherhood-imposes-equitable-paternity-3260-post17943.html

In NYC, if you are told you are the father, do the right thing and find out later you were cuckolded, you still have to pay child support even if you have children who are actually related to you who will pay the price!

They also put our articles like this...

www.spectator.co.uk/essays/all/6391918/whos-the-daddy.thtml

Women's right to decieve men about paternity for financial gain? Mmm, reminds of the woman's right to pretend she is on birth control to trap her boyfriend.

You know, where they force fatherhood on some young teenager rather than face the embarassment of being alone at prom? Once the baby is in the belly, there is no going back! I think alot of feminists are driven for a need for revenge much like the Edward Norton in American History X.

Nowadays with IVF and spermbanks there is no excuse for someone to be made a father against his will. You have a uterus, you can get a damned baby ANY time you want!

As for women getting hit harder by ANYTHING in a western country? WTF are you talking about? Most HOMELESS are MEN. The women who ARE homeless have women's shelters, women's refuges, women's services, women's this, women's that! Yeah, if you're a man, you can TAKE being homeless... if you're a man, you can TAKE prostate cancer without needing "breastcancer awareness" style events to raise money to stop you dying because ya know... boys don't cry.

Leningrad, you may well be right in that it's just one or two.

LeninGrad, I agree completely. That is why I feel some people's habit of throwing the "misogynist!" label around like confetti is both unreasonable and unhelpful.

TheShriekingHarpy - I read the same figures you quote from the other day on the ONS website. They make interesting reading.

Careful analysis and interpretation of the figures is needed. You are right that quoting the bald differential between average male and female pay is wrong. There is no doubt about it that there is pay and promotion discrimination on the basis of sex. However, there are many factors in play that need to be corrected for.

The gap between male and female pay that is least often talked about but most unfair is if you look at the highest paid 10% of the female full time workforce and compare it with the highest paid 10% of male full time workforce. Anecdotal figures I have seen leads me to suspect the highest decile of men are paid several times more than women once bonuses incentive pay and other fringe benefits are taken into account.

Slide down the percentiles though and the pay gap narrows and possibly now reverses as pay approaches minimum wage.

The picture is complex and to understand why the pay gap happens and has persisted a true and fair presentation and analysis of the figures is needed. Without that we cannot find solutions.

'A significant proportion of women in developing countries are oppressed, this is true. The Democratic Republic of the Congo springs to mind... But as you freely acknowledged above, women in "civilised" nations (eg the UK) have been emancipated - we have the right to vote, obtain credit without a guarantor, seek an abortion, live in comparative safety (unlike the women in TDROTC) etc etc. You, me and most other MNetters have thankfully never had to experience life without these "privileges". So I take exception to this idea, that we are all oppressed, by natural default Or for that matter "victims". Its nonsense. Of course some women will be discriminated against as a result of their gender, but this is not as pervasive as many feminists would argue. '

Exactly ShriekingHarpy I agree with everything you are saying. I am eernally greatful for what has been achieved in the past in UK but we have to strike a balance now and make sure all men and women are helped within the UK regardless of gender.

I do agree that in developing countries the plight of women is a big issue and would help and support any way of changing their situation.