Do you think that men are oppressed?

why don't you just have a vasectomy? you could bank some sperm as well so that you still have the option of children should you choose

It's because you don't have a uterus, Bill. Isn't that sad? But then I suspect you're the kind of manchild who would faint at the sign of a spot of menstrual blood, so probably best that you're in the body you're in.

I'm imagining that you think a Vietnamese woman who would be totally dependent on you, as an immigrant, would be forced to take the pills or do whatever the fuck else you asked her to. You want to enslave a woman because of her lack of money/options, basically, and control her reporductive system directly. Have you ever thought about locking your girlfriend in the basement? Or a little thing called purdah? You have a lot more in common with those nice chaps who throw acid at schoolgirls in Pakistan than you would like to think.

An imported Vietnamese woman can also have a contraception failure.

But I suppose you're thinking she'd be submissive enough to abort her baby if she was ordered to.

This isn't even funny anymore. This is what happens to millions of Indian and Chinese women every year.

"a coercive infringement of my civil rights"

There is something really sad about describing a baby like that.

Is this guy really 23 years old? He sounds much older and more embittered than that.

Let him carry on posting, as someone else said, it makes it so clear the level of sheer hatred the MRA's have for women. That mad insult of man-hater for feminist - well the so called hatred we're accused of having for men, pales into insignifance, when you see the real hatred oozing from a mysogynist like Bill.

Well he certainly is dedicated! I'm convinced .

loscann Mon 06-Dec-10 16:25:50

"If I can't find someone like my current girlfriend I'd just have to import a nice vietnamese girl"

hmm Says it all.

Why should we be exempt? Women can have children by themselves without creating messy legal situations and heartbreaking conditions for a child who had no choice in the matter. Any guy with half a brain has the "talk" about pills, condoms and other methods of contraception.

Women have all the cards and you know it. If a woman wants to keep an accident, she can. The man is forced to pay for it if she does thoug and that doesn't seem right at ALL to me, especially if they have discussed it previously and agreed that they're too young/old/poor/happy without kids. Women can also go out and get IVF, get sperm donors and have kids at their leisure. Women have the power to prevent deadbeat dad's being involved at all in the siring of their young, so why are teenage boys still ending up with child support payments?

If BH has come here, to demonstrate to MN what a bunch of women hating knobbers so called male rights activists are, I think we can safely say his work is done.

Male 'rights' my arse - male entitlement and privilege to act like a total misogynist wanker more like.

TSH doesn't it bother you that you thank and agree with people like this?

If you don't want to have children, BillHicks, can I suggest you either keep it firmly in your pants, have the snip or stick to bumsex only? If you have vaginal sex with a fertile woman there is always a tiny chance of pregnancy - god knows, women face up to this "risk" every time they have sex. Why should men be exempt? The difference is that you have the option to fuck off to another country, whereas the fetus is in her body and she may not be able to abort it for practical or ethical reasons. Great being a man, eh? If you are so convinced that women are conniving scroungers who want nothing more than to bear your sacred offspring, why not stop having sex with them?

Can we just say that patriarchy limits everyone's life.

"If I can't find someone like my current girlfriend I'd just have to import a nice vietnamese girl"

Says it all.

tabouleh Mon 06-Dec-10 13:17:14

BillHicks "I use condoms and I remind her about her pill because that's about all I can do on my side. I'd rather not have to use the pill, but it is the solution we have agreed upon if worst comes to worst."

You do realise that if the condom splits, you can't force her to use that pill regardless of what you've agreed hmm.

Yeah, I know in the end of the day I probably wouldn't be able to bring myself to dose someone without telling them. It would be a burden that I would have to carry around. Plus, I'd probably be brought up on murder charges or something.

In all likelyhood, I'd be out of the country within a week of hearing that she would force me to keep the child. On a plane to the EU, where I have a couple citizenship options that will make the task of dissappearing very, very easy. If I don't want a family, I don't have to have one until -I- want one and if anyone thinks they can force it on me, they'll have to find me first. If you want a kid, find someone else or find a sperm bank, I feel no obligation to support a coercive infringement of my civil rights.

When I feel it is the right time, I will have a child with a suitable partnet. If I can't find someone like my current girlfriend I'd just have to import a nice vietnamese girl bypassing any effect feminism might have my reproductive choices.

Of course some men are oppressed - they may be oppressed by racism or the social class system for example.

Men are not oppressed as a result of their sex however. Patriarchy may cause harm to men too, but that is entirely different to being in a group which is systematically oppressed by institutionalised power.

If men think they are oppressed by patriarchy why don't they change it?

BillHicks "I use condoms and I remind her about her pill because that's about all I can do on my side. I'd rather not have to use the pill, but it is the solution we have agreed upon if worst comes to worst."

You do realise that if the condom splits, you can't force her to use that pill regardless of what you've agreed .

BeerTricksPotter Mon 06-Dec-10 00:49:39

"system to benefit women only"

[hollow laughter emoticon]

--

I've never ever heard of women being accused of being the mother of a child that isn't hers, being expected to pay for it and then told to pay after being proven unrelated by a DNA test. Never heard of a woman jailed multiple times for that series of events either but it happens to men in America and the UK frequently.

This problem and the fact that it is not being addressed is what causing MRA's to pop up. I myself didn't give a shit until I came across several documented events like this happening repeatedly all over the place.

EminentlyImminent Sun 05-Dec-10 23:43:03

Bill Hicks also advocates forced abortions instead of using condoms on another thread in this section:

"As for you [other Poster's name], I'd rather not be a father at all if it meant having a child with someone like YOU. That being said, I keep a pack of RU486 in my drawer JUST in case I end up with an idiot who does try to trap me. A couple pills and BAM the baby is gone!"

Where did I state once that RU486 was to be used INSTEAD of condoms? It seems you've twisted my words around a little. In my response to another post I clearly state that I use condoms and my girlfriend uses the pill.

She reminds me, I remind her, so far so good. My girlfriend unlike alot of other women knows that I don't want kids yet and that if she did want to have kids in the near future she would have to find another guy. That's considerate, that is polite. I use condoms and I remind her about her pill because that's about all I can do on my side. I'd rather not have to use the pill, but it is the solution we have agreed upon if worst comes to worst.

I take parenthood very-fucking-seriously if you can't tell. You took a worst case hypothetical scenario where I had been decieved into fathering a child despite every girl I've ever been with knowing my views when it comes to fatherhood. I consider someone LYING about their intention to get pregnant and then expecting me to sacrifice 18 years of my life to a family I specifically stated that I didn't want.

How would the kid born of relationship like this handle not having a father? Growing up without a father around, assuming that this man was an evil bastard when in reality he was just a young man put into a situation that women have been able to prevent since the 1960s but for some reason just haven't.

sethstarkaddersmum Sun 05-Dec-10 22:23:41

'As for the men not paying maintenance, I'd probably stop too if I weren't allowed to see my child or I was forced to jump through hoops to see them.'

well that's rather telling isn't it. You'd punish your child by forcing them into poverty because you were pissed off with their mother.
What kind of a wanker are you?

--

Except in my country, I already pay for child support benefits and services through my taxes and I'm not even a father. If a woman can't nominate/find a/the father here, she still gets paid by the government. How about when you're dealing with women who are better off than the men they are asking for money from? Poverty doesn't exist in my country as we have social security and an economy that powered right through the global recession.

A woman can deny a man his visitation rights and nothing happens, she can be married to a rich doctor or a high-powered business man whilst denying the father custody because she has more money whilst also having the ability to have him jailed with rapists and murderers for not sending that monthly check. Men are often jailed after they lose their job and fall behind on their child support payments. These men end up raped by hardened criminals.

lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/decisions/appellate/a1873-08.opn.html

This guy did the right thing for 10 years, he found out he wasn't the father and was FORCED to continue paying. Would he a deadbeat if he stopped paying? Does he count in the deadbeat dad stats? Or is that to be ignored because the court has decided biological or not, he's paying?

njdivorceblog.typepad.com/new_jersey_divorce_law_me/paternity/

Another guy cuckolded into paying for kids that aren't his and he can't even recover the money he was decieved into paying. What about if this guy had other kids who needed his financial support later on? Would they be expected to go without?

njdivorceblog.typepad.com/new_jersey_divorce_law_me/2006/07/new_jersey_divo_2.html

Now they've got TWO guys paying child support for the same kid? The father AND the psychological father? Oh, THAT is fair.

www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw-act/dad-must-pay-for-other-guys-kids/story-e6freuzi-1111112494551

Another cuckold required to pay with no recourse, this time in the UK. So that means it has escaped the nutty US court system where idiotic judgments are commonplace... This is unusual! Poms don't usually let bullshit cases like burglers suing for accident break in go to court. Mmm, I think I smell a current.

Feminists have set up a system worldwide where injustices like this can happen and where injustices like this are becoming increasingly common. How can one woman recieve child support from TWO fathers, HOW!? How can a man who has been proven NOT to be the father be forced to pay 120,000 pound sterling for kids that aren't his?

The very systems set up to protect women's rights have INFRINGED men's rights in their zeal. They have assumed all men to guilty until proven innocent and even that won't stop you getting slugged by a system set up to benfit women only.

Bill Hicks also advocates forced abortions instead of using condoms on another thread in this section:

"As for you [other Poster's name], I'd rather not be a father at all if it meant having a child with someone like YOU. That being said, I keep a pack of RU486 in my drawer JUST in case I end up with an idiot who does try to trap me. A couple pills and BAM the baby is gone!"

I really would try not to engage with him - he has already derailed another thread on here with this kind of vile, angry, sick ranting. Just hope his shift ends soon.

Just jumping in here quickly, don't plan to stay but just wanted to say that it's funny that 'white power' was mentioned. Because I have the same feelings towards the 'men's right's movement' as I do towards any large, dominant group who attempt to portray themselves as victims. I find it deeply unsettling.

MRA's are, to me, just a men's version of the BNP. Unpleasant at best, downright dangerous at worst.

How ANY person can claim that women somehow have the upper hand over men is beyond me. Men rule the world. They run our governments, control the global financial world, they start the wars (and end them).

All women have asked of men is "that they will take their feet from off our necks".

And even this is supposedly too much.

BillHicks wrote - "As for the men not paying maintenance, I'd probably stop too if I weren't allowed to see my child or I was forced to jump through hoops to see them."

The maintenance money paid by fathers is supposed to be for the benefit of the child. The money is not supposed to be some kind of "child rental fee" that father's can withhold if the father doesn't see a benefit for the father.

Talk about "conditional love" for one's children, geez...