Do you think that men are oppressed?

ElephantsAndMiasmas Mon 06-Dec-10 18:13:45

Love the idea that there is a compromise between having an abortion and not having one. If you wanted to have a child, and your girlfriend wasn't into the idea at that point, how would you feel about her aborting the fetus against your will?

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I'd leave her and find someone else like a normal human being? Men don't have a choice to abort, the best we can do is use protection, tell the potential mother we aren't interested in having children.

Men don't want the right to abort/not abort, we want the right to make it clear that if you get pregnant it is at your own financial risk should you decide to keep it. Women have any number of options, men are given one: Shut the fuck up and do what we tell you!

You know what, they are your bodies, do what you want with them. Have a baby, don't have a baby, it's your choice. But if you DO want a baby, do you want it with an ex-boyfriend who bailed the second he heard the word "baby" or would ya rather have it with the turkey baster?

Better yet, find a guy who is willing or a woman if that is what you want. Just don't force fatherhood on someone because you're too impatient either for him to settle down or you're worried about your biological clock running out.

Not got a very good grasp of constitutional monarchy either.

I suspect Lord Melbourne had more control over all that wealth and certainly over all the policies to do with it, than Queen Victoria did.

She didn't have the right to vote because she was the queen. But if she hadn't been the queen she wouldn't have had the right to vote because she was ... oh why am I bothering.

One woman was once very rich.

Which wipes out the fact that 90% of wealth is owned by men.

OK.

You didn't answer the point bill. how does men holding 90% of the worlds wealth and power square with the arguments you're trying to make?

I think some men are oppressed and some aren't, and some women are oppressed and some aren't. It's situation specific.

HerBeatitude Mon 06-Dec-10 17:43:33

"Feminists want to pretend that every single male who ever lived between the beginning of time and the beginning of feminism was an abuser, an oppressor and a all-round asshole. Whereas women were saintly representations of the highest type of human virtue who could do, can do and will never do anything wrong at least in comparison to a man."

yes of course hmm. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that men own 90% of the world's wealth.

Nada. Zilch. It's just about us wanting to play make-believe.

Oh- kay.

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Humankind wasn't born into civilization, it had to forge it from the natural world. Men are stronger than women and that is why we are men set world speed records in swimming and running... The aveage OLYMPIC women's team is comparable to say a male HS team sheerly because they don't have the testosterone.

There were ancient societies which treated women respectfully, like the old Irish. That society was obliterated by more ruthless ones... back in the day... physically women were a liability in most cases, not a boon.

You do know that a female once literally inherited 1/4th of the world's population as subjects? She controlled the wealth of the biggest empire to ever exist in all of history for 61 years. I'm willing to bet she had more money than 99% of people on the planet at the time.

Love the idea that there is a compromise between having an abortion and not having one. If you wanted to have a child, and your girlfriend wasn't into the idea at that point, how would you feel about her aborting the fetus against your will?

In all honesty, given that you don't like women because we're all hysterical sperm-stealing sluts who've got world politics sewn up, that you highlight your girlfriend's comparability to a man when praising her, and you don't want to risk having a child - have you considered homosexuality? What about a nice celibate homosexual commune, the mirror image of those favoured by some radfems in Days of Yore?

How great do you think the world would be if men could have babies, and there were no women at all? Out of 10?

Why was this thread even bumped from August?

Is there some kind of Male plot to invade mumsnet and get everyone arguing about how crap men are just so these posters can have their ideas of mumsnet confirmed? It's no coincidence that several foul posters have suddenlu appeared to educate us silly women over the last few days. BORING!

What comes across very strongly, is a total and complete lack of interest in the welfare of children.

Really really horrible and quite depressing.

"In a day and age where a woman doesn't even need touch a man to get pregnant, what possible excuse is there for forcing a kid on an unwilling father?"

To answer for the benefit of lurkers, the fact that there is still NO SUCH THING as 100% effective contraception. All contraceptive methods have a failure rate, even if you use it 100% correctly.

"upon hearing that the child will kept that he can discharges all legal and finacial obligations first"

Yeah, yeah MRAs

Somebody's got to defend a man's right to abandon his children if he isn't allowed to force a woman to have an abortion.

tbh i think 'so rip your own balls off' might be my final recommendation

it is mostly foolproof (do have a cauterising tool at the ready)and you need never worry about unwanted children again

hth

I tend to think 'give enough rope...' tends to prove itself with these types.

I reckon the lurkers will have been as disgusted by the Vietnamese mail order reproductive slave bride as the rest of us.

I will engage with all sorts but CBA with posters like this. Not worth it.

amazing how some men think consequence-free sex is their right and get all foot-stampy if they can't have it.

in light of my last post i will give 2 responses

a) so rip your balls off already!

b) perhaps you need to engage in non-penetrative sex until such time as you feel prepared to father a child

i am always torn about how to deal with these sorts of posts

take the piss mercilessly

or

answer thoughtfully for the benefit of lurkers who might be thinking 'hmm he might have a point'

chibi Mon 06-Dec-10 17:31:02

why don't you just have a vasectomy? you could bank some sperm as well so that you still have the option of children should you choose

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My father got my mother pregnant with her third son in a row about two months after his operation. 1 in every 100 of males who get the job done still manage to get a woman pregnant. Those women are under no obligation to abort despite the fact that they know their husband let a doctor cut into his groin to stop it. -_- Which brings us back to the same problem, women have the final say. That's great but men should be given the option, upon hearing that the child will kept that he can discharges all legal and finacial obligations first. In a day and age where a woman doesn't even need touch a man to get pregnant, what possible excuse is there for forcing a kid on an unwilling father?

Seth, they don't need to read it - they just spout what the MRA websites say.

It's either spout spout posture posture with MRAs or a whole load of 'but what about mmeeeeeeeee????'.

The bile is quite something for a Privileged Person!

"Feminists want to pretend that every single male who ever lived between the beginning of time and the beginning of feminism was an abuser, an oppressor and a all-round asshole. Whereas women were saintly representations of the highest type of human virtue who could do, can do and will never do anything wrong at least in comparison to a man."

yes of course . It has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that men own 90% of the world's wealth.

Nada. Zilch. It's just about us wanting to play make-believe.

Oh- kay.

ha ha, point missed about Solanas again. I guess Bill has never read the stuff Solanas was satirising. Perhaps he is not very well read all round.

his concerns are interestingly atavistic aren't they - he's scared of being forced to look after another man's baby, jealous because he can't reproduce, panics at his inability to control 'his' woman's fertility....

Sorry BH, I only got as far as 'Valerie Solanas' and then snorted at the lack of originality stopped reading. I have heard this unpleasant speech many many times from MRAs, so yes, your posts/views are tedious boring unoriginal spouted without critical thought or analysis ignorant misogynistic racist sexist typical of the average MRA.

So you're the Valerie Solanas of the MRA movement? Thanks for the clarification.

You are frankly bonkers if you think that feminists hold those opinions of men. You are also talking bollocks about e.g. female teachers being let off for sex with pupils. I can think of quite a few instances in the last year or two with female teachers being jailed for sex with students, and quite right too if they did it.

You think feminists are the oppressive majority, in that you compare our "fear" to that of white people being afraid of black people fighting back. You're living in a dreamworld, pal. Do you even know who is running the country, the religious organisations, the police, the armed forces, the world? Are they packing a copy of the Female Eunuch, or even a uterus? No. They are not. Get over yourself, if men can't sort absolutely everything out for their own benefit god knows it's not for lack of opportunity. What do you want? More men in power?

which social services are men barred from?

do we have any sort of affirmative action in this country? i did not realise this - source please, i am v interested to read more

also do you have any reference for your teacher sex crime conviction/sentencing stats, i did not know that these were collated, where can i find them?

Beachcomber Mon 06-Dec-10 16:43:37

If BH has come here, to demonstrate to MN what a bunch of women hating knobbers so called male rights activists are, I think we can safely say his work is done.

Male 'rights' my arse - male entitlement and privilege to act like a total misogynist wanker more like.

TSH doesn't it bother you that you thank and agree with people like this?

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Are you going to say that I am typical of the men's right movement? That's like me picking say... Valerie Solanas and citing her as example of a typical feminist.

Any number of the things she said about men in that book could be cherry picked and used to prove women are planning to use lesbianism and socialism to enslave men or some crazy shit like that.

Feminists are paranoid that all of a sudden, they'll all find themselves fired from their jobs, assigned a husband and sent home to holding a bucket, a mop and a baby bottle. Feminists aren't willing to admit to the fact that they are still afraid of men much like white people used to be afraid of black people back when people were prejudiced fucks.

I don't want your daughters to earn less than my son if they work the same job but at the same time I don't want to him pay for social services that are barred to him because of his sex. Is that so unreasonable?

I don't want your daughters to be barred from going to uni but my sons shouldn't have to give up their spot for someone else because of their sex, race or sexual orientation regardless of merit. Is that so unreasonable?

I want ALL serious crimes to be tried the same way, no matter who committed them... whether they be white, black, yellow, male or female. Why is it that female teachers get a slap on the wrist when they touch up a kid but male teachers get jail-time? I wanna call bullshit right there, same with the blacks males who cop it so much harder than the whites when it comes to jail sentences.

Is that unreasonable? Are any of THESE wishes unreasonable?

Feminists want to pretend that every single male who ever lived between the beginning of time and the beginning of feminism was an abuser, an oppressor and a all-round asshole. Whereas women were saintly representations of the highest type of human virtue who could do, can do and will never do anything wrong at least in comparison to a man.