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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

I think I might call this a day

132 replies

ISNT · 16/08/2010 08:43

I just feel so miserable that we are not able to actually discuess women's rights, on the women's rights section, seemingly ever.

All we ever talk about is men and I'm just really fucked off and bored with it. I feel like people just keep coming and stamping on my head.

OP posts:
ButterpieBride · 16/08/2010 09:24

I love this topic as it is part of a wider forum, so we do get to bounce ideas around with people who may not have considered them before.

Goblinchild · 16/08/2010 09:20

AMIS, you make sense to me. You can use it as an opportunity to educate others, hone your arguments and see how well-constructed they are. Hopefully you will be able to change the perceptions of those that gatecrash in with issues of their own and blinkers firmly i place.
It's always been a fight, whatever area of rights you are discussing. Please don't give up because of opposition.

AMumInScotland · 16/08/2010 09:16

I think the problem is that you want to "talk to women who are coming from the same place on these issues as me", but the fact is this is not a feminism forum, so you are also going to have to deal with a lot of women (and some men) who are not coming from the same place as you. That may be because they disagree with you, or because they haven't really thought about it much before and are still struggling to think "outside the box" or to even start considering that the world they know isn't the way it "has to be".

So there will be a lot of people who "derail" the threads by focussing on men. It's such an automatic thing for many people to do, they do it without even thinking about it.

Not quite the same, but I am in the Home Ed topic quite a bit, and we have a similar argument on and off about how annoying it is to have people coming onto the threads assuming that school is the "proper" way to educate children. We have the same discussions over and over about how Home ed works, to educate people who have never really thought about it, rather than being free to talk about how to deal with a specific issue amongst people who are "coming from the same place".

That's because this is a general forum, not one where everyone has even a little knowledge about that issue - womens rights has to be explained over and over to people who just don't get it, before you hopefully get a few of them up to t apoint where you can have a more in-depth discussion. And then someone new comes in and you start from "Feminism 101" again.

Original poster
ISNT · 16/08/2010 09:07

Yes exactly rustybear, we must talk about the men.

On that thread, we have neen told that the prostitution aspect is "irrelevant" and "not the point" and that we must talk about the rights of disabled men to sex instead. No-one will engage on teh question of whetehr sex is a right, no-one will engage on whether councils should be facilitating this, excapt to say flatly yes of course tehy should.

On the FOSH threads we were not allowed to talk about the actions of a man who abused prostitutes and wrote about it, gaining him notoreity and indeed fame, and instead had to put up with acres and acres of stuff about how all women just love being prostitutes.

On the trans threads we were told that we were not women. We were not allowed to talk about female identity as being anything other than "a state of mind" and thus we did not, in fact, actually exist.

On the rape law threads we were screamed at for hours and hours by men who absolutely believed that woman lie about it all the time and what about the poor men eh, what about them.

I am fucking sick of it.

OP posts:
Original poster
ISNT · 16/08/2010 09:02

Yes that's what I mean

What about the menz

About 2/3 of the threads on here end up with people coming in from elsewheer with the express purpose of saying "waaah what about the menz"

I am sick and tired of it. When this topic opened it was wonderful to be able to talk to women who are coming from the same place on these issues as me, something I can't do in RL. There have been some great discussions.

But now it's just forget about the women, we have to talk about something else instead adn I've had enough.

People just want us to shut up and fuck off don't they. They do in RL, I thought it was safe to talk on here, but it isn't is it.

OP posts:
RustyBear · 16/08/2010 09:00

Surely the discussion of womens' rights should be able to include a discussion of how those rights may conflict with the rights of others? Whether the 'others' are society in general, men as a whole, particular men, or even possibly other women?

If the discussion you are referring to is the disabled/prostitues one, I don't see why it should be stifled, just because it may have taken a different direction than the anticipated one.

If you're going to have a discussion, surely you need another point of view - otherwise the thread would just have consisted of a few posts along the lines of 'Yes, this is bad, how awful, etc' and then it would have died - instead it's an interesting thought provoking thread that raises many questions and may change people's minds.

StealthPolarBear · 16/08/2010 08:59

Not sure what's happened sorry?
Surely men are important in the discussion as discussing women's rights implies they are different from men's (either rightly or wrongly)
if you mean the discussion always just ends up being about what men want then yanbu

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