I think I might call this a day

i am saying bf a societal issue.men,work,peers,class all impact and influence

hey ISNT, i felt excatly the same as you and did indeed take myself off for a bit of a recharge.

i am now back :) and ready to re-engage.

aye aye scottishmummy

all this derailment hoo ha is a digression.on internet make your point,be prepared for divergent views and dont get too het up or personal.

it is completley possible to dislike a post content and still enagage. in fact the most vociferious threads are at times best ones

I find that it is easy for me to get very cross on the internet when things are not going my way. .

I will admit that on 2 threads in other sections recently I have allowed scottishmummy's post to upset me - and I have flounced off the threads!

So strange really thinking about it. Actually the internet is different as it provides more robust arguments and more varied opinions than in a typical day to day conversation.

A couple of things I think tortoise has said recently have resonated with me (possibly not on this thread).

One was about the conversation changing due to the Overton Window. Well it the conversation moves it can always be moved back again - and this is probably more effective if it is just moved rather than "we were trying to talk abou XYZ".

The second thought was about "traditional female debating/arguing etc" - I always want to bring people round to my point of view and get frustrated when I don't. My DH and some of his friends enjoy arguing for the sheer fun of it.

I think I enjoy this also but have been "moulded" by my upbringing/experiences to think that disagreement with me = personal attack.

However even my own personal experience has shown that even if I disagree with something today I may very well change my mind in the future - so it is important for me to be open about other opinions and choices.

Something Thebossofme said on the intro thread was interesting: "I also care very much about the use of language in debate, so you will see me use the phrases "I think" and "I believe" a lot when I am expressing opinion rather than fact. I love debate, and I dislike sermonising and preaching.

I think (see what I did there that it is worth bearing in mind all the new posters to this section and the lurkers and making sure that things are explained as much as possible and people's questions are answered.

I will endeavour to do this (and I did indeed do so on that thread and it was appreciated and commented on).

we are emphasising the physiological,but practically most other issues are male and female.bf is a bit both as support of partner can influence initiation,and maintenence of bf

off top of my head only exclusive womens issues i can think of are episiotomy,womb prolapse.

everything else is pretty much everyone issue

i hate this notion certain issues are womens issues,see this in politics the female mp get herded into childcare,bit health, wimmins issues.as if automatically female remit

I am not saying forget about issues which affect women, but I do think it's helpful to compare and contrast, I suppose. Esp when there is an overlap. I understand how that can be frustrating, but it may just add to understanding root causes in some circumstances.

"It's not gender based discrimination/misogyny if it happens to men too" - sorry wukter but IMHO as a generalisation that is bollocks, because if something happens to e.g. 70% of women, but only 5% of men, there is clearly a strong correlation with gender.

If something happens equally to both sexes then of course it's not a gender issue, although as you say gender might play a role in experience as well.

But I do think that whataboutthemen? gets slightly overused. It's not wrong IMO to question how something affects men. It's maddening however when we're supposed to forget something because X happens to men too. For example rape as a weapon of war. Some men get raped during wars, but the wholesale rape of women and girls during conflicts is well known. For some posters it's inappropriate to talk about this as a gender issue because some men are also affected.

People are far too triggerhappy with that what about the menz sneer.
Often it's entirely justified to ask that question. We only come in two flavours, if you are discussing gender issues men are basically our control group. Try discussing Night without mentioning day, or Summer without Winter.
It's not gender based discrimination/misogyny if it happens to men too, (albeit the differences in manifestation are illuminating.) It's anti- something- ism, not neccessarily anti-woman. If the root is what we are looking for we ought to explore all avenues til we find it not dismiss it because a newcomer has asked a perfectly valid question, regardless of who is annoyed at hearing it asked.

yes,measured risk taking is way to go.

are there reds under the beds SM?

and some of you are beguiled by faux familiarity and assumed safety

You talk like a robot, SM but you are basically right. Still in the absence of other ways of getting in touch with feminists from other locations, it is all there is. Plus avoiding personal details etc is pretty easy.

internet is most certainly not safe space.cannot corroborate anything.so to assume safe to disclose trauma is erroneous

That's true, but it sounds like SF is trying to create a safe space where people can be as confident as possible in the circ's that they won't be abused or stalked or personally attacked, or have information they use posted against them.

in rl people seek out like minded folk.is called friendship

on internet no one is your friend,anyone can post

But not everyone's always capable of/in the mood for "robust rebuttal", sometimes people just want to talk SM. People are on here saying "well, get over yourselves and stop talking about derailing, it's a public board." Well, SF's is a private board. What's the problem with that? Should private conversations/debates/clubs be avoided in RL too? Instead of talking quietly to my friends about an issue should I be prepared to take to the airwaves about it, or stand on a soapbox in the middle of town? Why should people who are talking about their own personal traumas and experiences be expected to conform to standards of peer-reviewed "intellectual rigour"? - this isn't a university.

and what inhibited robust rebuttal of said trolls

post personal stuff on internet with caution.no one can corroborate anyone authenticity or motives for participating