Has anyone changed their views on Feminism/women's role in society as a result of things they have read on here?

My views haven't changed, but that's because I've spent a LOT of time watching conversations on feminist blogs over the past few years, and that was really the thing that crystallised my thoughts. All the reading and thinking I'd done prior to that was nothing compared to watching intelligent, unapologetic women duke it out in unapologetic terms. And a lot of what posters here have said was true for me, too - the sheer audacity of the more radical/forthright posters gave me the space to expand how I thought, and the courage to actually think the things I wanted to think.

MN has been really interesting in that people like dittany and Sakura have done a brilliant job of articulating views I have never understood before, especially around the transgender issues. I still don't agree with them, but prior to MN I'd sort of thought that all feminists regarded trans issues as allied, and so it's been really interesting to see where the other side of that schism is coming from.

Sakura - I do apologise for my comment if it pissed you off, it was justa sweeping generalisation of what I used to think, and didn't mean for it to cause the age old WOHM/SAHM offence.

This place has helped, despite the fact you are polarised here by the fact if you work or not.

What I understand now is that there are an infinite variety of reasons why women chose to work or not, and they are different for each woman. It is as unlikely that a woman choses to be a SAHM so she can sit on her arse all day wathcing Jeremny Kyle, as it is unlikely that a woman goes back to work FT when she has a 3 month old baby (as I did) because she is a venal, selfish witch.

The SAHM/WOHM arguments on here do get me down sometimes, I am 100% happy with my decision not to stop work, but some people do like to judge, and that perpetuates the row. I think the feminist approach is to encourage choice and not to dismiss someone as being wrong, selfish or misguided, whether they choose to stay at home or not.

Thank you. I agree with that and that makes sense. I did misunderstand and read that much differently in your first post. Thank you for clarifying :)

StarExpat, Please don't misunderstand my point. I tried to word it as carefully as possible because you can only get what I mean if you try to imagine a non-patriarchal, non-capitalist society.

Under patriarchy-capitalism specific jobs are regarded as "work" and other jobs are not and the only criteria for the defintion is that some jobs are paid under a capitalist system and other jobs are not.
MOthering as work is one of those jobs that doesn't count because it doesn't create revenue for the economy, therefore it has been devalued to zero under our current system.

Some people, the kind who think mothers sit on the sofa eating crisps all day (as if), of which there are many, have been duped into accepting this patriarchal view of the world and therefore believe any paid job, anything constitutes "work", whereas mothering does not. This is despite the fact that a mother cannot be anywhere else or do anything while she is doing the work of mothering. She's not a student, she's not an unemployed man.

So the idea that mothers are lazy or not working because they take care of their children themselves is just plain wrong for a start, but we all know that.

Then ideology that "real" work is at the check-out of Macdonalds and caring for babies is "non-work" and mothers must get back to "real" work ASAP only makes sense if you ascribe to the world-view of a patriarchal-capitalist system.

"duped into lining the pockets of some conglomerate"...
What was that for?

sorry Getorf
You made a SAHM comment that I can'T let pass.
I'm a rad feminist and a SAHM. In a patriarchal society the work of mothering has been reduced to zero and the people who do it are seen as being pond-life amoebas.

I'm glad you don't think SAHMs are lazy anymore, but I just want to clarify that many women don't care for their children because it makes them 'happy", but because they have reverence for the importance of the job (i.e they haven't been duped into lining the pockets of some conglomerate) , even if it means they have to live in relative poverty in order to do it.

It's not a SAHM/WOHM thing, it's just a comment on the current patriarchal set-up, and how it has been designed to be inimical to women and what women do.

Totally agree with your OP Janos. MN and the feminist section has changed my views on some of the organisations I am involved in and made me realise how patriarchal they actually are rather than thinking they are just "competitive" or even just the normal status quo (in fact how patriarchal most of the world is). I have realised why I am uncomfortable with porn. I becoming much more articulate as to why something is misogynistic and now challenge casual misogyny (sophable - with you on the lack of humour comments and certainly the open hostility!).
And thank you to dittany for being harsh, but fair to me on a thread and making me sit up and take notice.

I don't feel like a lone voice inside my head, diluted by everyone around
I don't feel isolated
I have started to believe I have power in my one voice, when that voice is joined with others.
And I have started challenging things
I think this section is the best thing about MN in a long long time
[must do some reading though, I really must join the bookclub]

I haven't read the whole thread, but a few threads have changed my understanding and opinions on women wearing veils. Particularly posts by riven. she truly opened my eyes to an entirely different perspective. One that I now embrace, wholeheartedly.

Made me realise that I am not a feminist even though I thought I was.

It was 1995 when the new editor came on board - some daft bint called Nikki.

It changed immediately. I remember a brilliant article where people voted for their 100 top feminists throughout history. Imagine that in Cosmo today! Also, they interviewed really top diplomats, they were successful, hard working and intelligfent, albeit stern looking women. They wouldn't be interviewed in a glossy today without a prior makeover.

Such a shame that a magazine with a really strong and dynamic history to be proud of ended up being a load of trash like all the other glossies.

I LOVED Cosmo when I was in college. My aunt used to buy it and I used to read it when she was finished. But after I left college, I found it became just another glossy with piss-poor journalism. Deffo no striding!

To me, the feminist section on MN has been a breath of fresh air. As a student, I considered myself a feminist but had gradually become more and more disillusioned over the years, particularly in the 90's when it became apparent that women younger than me appeared to think of feminism as a dirty word and seemed to be embracing their own brand of neo-bimboism! I do feel that I also became complacent and less likely to challenge misogyny and discrimination where I did find it.
Interesting that some have said having children re-ignited their interest. I found it dulled it! Before I had children, I had a list of things I was going to tell my daughters about assertiveness and standing up for themselves. Well, I didn't have any daughters so I think felt a bit meh! about all my ideas, thinking I had no-one to tell them to. This section and others has given me the message that it's actually just as important, and maybe more important to tell my sons.
I was a bit at dittany saying that she hasn't particularly found her views on feminism haven't changed as a result of MN as I had sort of thought that dittany was feminism on MN! I have always thought you were the voice of wisdom on the relationships threads, dittany, the reasonable one who would point out that no, abuse of is not acceptable, not the norm and not to be tolerated.
I find, like others, that I don't always agree with you ( on trans-women, for example) but MN is a much better place for your presence here.

Am glad someone else remembers Cosmo.

There used to be a graduates/student bit every September, with really USEFUL stuff like how to write a CV, how to act in an interview, interviews with people high up in the Foreign office etc. It really made me feel that there was nothing I couldn't do.

But yes they got a new editor to replace marcelle D'argy Smith and it went completely downhill. There was nothing else like it - Marie Claire of the time was reasonably intellginet, and had articles about the role of women abroad, but nothing else had such a strong and proud feminist agenda like Cosmo.

I'd like to add my thanks too, I think it's helped me strengthen myself and certainly enable me to take more control over relationships with various people in my life. I hope this in turn benefits my two sons.

at 'I'll give you shrill, mate' - I may have said something along those lines recently myself :)

Also, I am a lot less judgmental of women's choices since I have been a MNer.

before, re SAHMs, I would have been dismissive, thinking lazy, etc. Now I just think good on you, as long as you are happy.

sorry for appalling spelling etc

yes AnyF - before i would have been conscious that to stand up for what I believe in would make me sounds shrill, strident, shrwewish.

Now I don't give a fuck. I will argue back. Shrill? I'll give you shrill, mate

The feminists on MN have made me think about things that I hadn't for years.

I was very openly feminist when I was a teenager (all that youthful hope and promise!) but I think i just put it all to teh back of my mind, and almost felt apologetic about being a feminist. There is so little mainstream feminist activity in the media. When i was a teen in the early 90s Cosmopolitan magazine was openly feminist, lots of articles on feminism, had Naomi Wolf and Andrea Dworkin interviewed, loads of articles about how to break down the glass ceiling in male-dominated professions. Then it turned inot a nonsnensical, sex and make up mag like all the others.

This place is great because I have learnt a HELL of a lot of stuff, and feel far more confident in being out and proud in my feminism, not only on MN but in the wider world. I don't think that I would have reinvigorated my feminist feelings if it wasn't for mumsnet.