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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Morning all, How about a straw poll?

65 replies

ISNT · 30/07/2010 09:58

Strawpoll is about jobs and adverts for jobs and the job centre.

A judge ruled a few years back that job centres have to advertise any job which is legal. Thus they run ads for webcam roles, escorts, phone sex lines etc.

Is this a good thing, or a bad thing?

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dittany · 01/08/2010 15:59

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Original poster
ISNT · 01/08/2010 14:38

excellent timing!

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Original poster
ISNT · 31/07/2010 11:24

Have put a few posts on that other thread.

The parallels with the reaction to the 8yo who was raped are striking - desperation to blame the girl, desperation to exonerate the males.

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dittany · 31/07/2010 11:15

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Original poster
ISNT · 31/07/2010 10:39

I have hidden most of MN now as I was spending too much of my time in a rage

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Original poster
ISNT · 31/07/2010 10:38

I saw that thread too - and it was interesting that a few posts in someone linked an article which gave a completely different spin to the one in the OP but only a few people seemed to consider the situation presented in the second article as likely.

The other interesting thing was that I made an absolutely superb point about how all men know that if a female looks 25 she could well be 21, if she looks 18 she could well be 15 and if she looks 16 she is almost certainly underage. I am repeating it on here as no-one was interested on the other thread

The thing that is odd is that presumably people want the law changed so that having sex with children in never a "statutory" offense, which effectively removes the protection for children with behavioural issues - and if they're sexual issues then it's usually because they;ve been abused.

I wonder how everyone on that thread would feel if it was a 12yo boy?

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dittany · 31/07/2010 00:50

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Prolesworth · 30/07/2010 23:37

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Pogleswood · 30/07/2010 23:36

"different people didn't share that morality and why should my view previal."

This is when I want to say "because I am right,damn it,and they are wrong" but modern society frowns on taking such a black and white view of life....
The other point is that someone's view has to prevail - why not yours?

Original poster
ISNT · 30/07/2010 22:12

I have voted LD in the past too, thankfully I didn't in the last election, I had no idea that policies / ideas like these were sloshing around in the party. Bizarre.

On the moral thing - that was another argument I was met with - that it was "my morality" that said these ads were wrong for the jobcentre, but that different people didn't share that morality and why should my view previal. I wish that I had thought to make the point about prostitution being a legal and actually theoretically excellenf fit for many women who are not working and have children... Would that be OK? If morality is completely out of the question.

I just didn't understand what I was being confronted with TBH. i think I am getting over it now though

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jenny60 · 30/07/2010 21:30

Shocking: am totally against these ads and against this bizarre Lib Dems nonsense. What is wrong with them?

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 30/07/2010 18:22

God seriously some of these libdems are fucked up (and I say this as a LD voter who until now knew nothing about this shit). What are they playing at? Someone is confusing "being young and cool and hip" with "appealing to sexist arsecandles and exploiting women and girls" again. Such a common error.

dittany · 30/07/2010 17:26

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Pogleswood · 30/07/2010 15:04

I agree,dittany,that is I agree that the sex industry oppresses and exploits women - but not everyone does(goodness knows why)
and that is where the argument that these are just jobs like any other job comes from.
I was trying to look at it and see what specifically makes this type of work different,given that it isn't illegal - you think it is different because it oppresses women,and to me that is a moral argument(and personally I think it is a perfectly good one).

Also we may be looking at "moral" a bit differently - the statement "It's like saying that arguments against racism in employment are "moral". It goes a a lot deeper than that." doesn't compute to me because the idea that a moral argument against something is shallow reverses how I feel.

I am left speechless by the idea that watching and appearing in explicit pornography is a right that 16 and 17 year olds should have. Gah!

Prolesworth · 30/07/2010 14:29

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MillyR · 30/07/2010 14:24

Here is a link to a 2004 article, when they created the policy:

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/let-16yearolds-visit-sex-shops-and-see-explicit-porn-say-lib- dems-567128.html

MillyR · 30/07/2010 14:18

'Under the Lib Dems, the legal age for viewing or appearing in adult movies will be cut from 18 to 16.

But the policy - overwhelmingly passed at the party?s conference in 2004 - has now been savaged on the internet by women who claim it is ?essentially legalisation of child porn?.

One mum, called crystal123, fumed: ?Many young people aged 12 appear 16 or 17 and could easily end up in explicit pornography.

Parenting websites like MumsNet and NetMums are seen as vital election battlegrounds.

A Lib Dem spokesman said: ?Our manifesto sets out what we will do in government. This policy is not in our manifesto.? '

Prolesworth · 30/07/2010 14:04

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MillyR · 30/07/2010 14:02

How does working in the sex industry fit in with sex discrimination? If you are advertising jobs for porn performers, are you obliged to ensure that you give male and female applicants the same consideration, despite the fact that you require applicants for lap dancing, pole dancing, web cam performers and prostitutes to be female? Are sex industry jobs allowed exemption from laws on sex discrimination in the way that women who work in refuges are?

The Liberal Democrats want the age at which a young person can legally appear in a pornographic film to be lowered from 18 to 16. As almost all women in the porn industry enter it before 21, maybe we should be campaigning to have the age raised to 21 for the sex industry. That would offer some protection to the many women who go from childhood abuse into the sex industry. They would at least have a period of time to deal with their past, look at other options and make choices about the sex industry when they are in a less vulnerable position.

fluffles · 30/07/2010 13:44

what a minefield.

i don't think that jobs involving actually taking your clothes off, touching people sexually or 'escorting' should be advertised in job centres.. but then i know somebody who went for an IT job and discovere after interview that it was tech support for a late-night porn cable channel! I'm not sure about these 'support roles' being advertised.

i am VERY uncomfortable with anybody being compelled to take a job in any capacity in the sex industry (even tech support roles)...

but maybe this is idealistic as i don't think that a strict vegetarian should be compelled to work in an abattoir or a strict muslim in a pub or nightclub so maybe i'm just too soft in general on compelling people to work??

dittany · 30/07/2010 13:02

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slug · 30/07/2010 12:06

I can see the Daily Mail headline now...

"Forced into the Sex Industry by the Government"

Prolesworth · 30/07/2010 12:06

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Pogleswood · 30/07/2010 12:02

Well,if you'd like me to come and rant at your colleagues about that situation and actual 16 year olds,ISNT,I'd be happy to oblige...(could be equally ranty about 18 year olds actually)

Original poster
ISNT · 30/07/2010 11:56

I have no idea how they are defined at the moment. Sorry for misunderstanding you proflayton, I took your points the wrong way. I think that some jobs are defined as "over18" at the moment (although in the conversation I had that upset me we were talking about theoretical 16yo) - maybe that is where the line is drawn?

I guess there must be laws defining certain types of sex work and applying a min age to them? Otherwise there would be 15yo working as lapdancers and I'm sure that's illegal. If that is the case (and it must be), then you can easily exclude jobs which have a min age criteria applied to to being in the sex industry.

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