straight pornography is male gay in sensibility

Interesting piece, Dittany.Particularly when the writer says that he considered the work 'sick and cruel slapstick' and not really 'about sex' at all. I also think that the bad porn that has been coming out over the past few years is a reflection of the more general selling of cruelty and selfishness in entertainment media: the reality shows and 'chat' shows where people are encouraged to laugh and whoop and cheer as someone is reduced to hysterical tears, confronted with an appalling truth about his/her life, physically endangered, dumped in cold water, repeatedly knocked down, whatever - not to mention all the stuff like Saw and Hostel - just because it's labelled 'horror' rather than 'porn' isn;t going to stop some people wanking over the depictions of women being chopped up.

'I'm not sure that I agree with this because gay men sort of like women so much more than straight men do, and many have great relationships with their mothers.'

I don't think you can generalise. There are plenty of gay misogynists about unfortunately, and there have been definite strands in gay culture, historically, about how generally awful women are with their revolting female bodies.

The people with the most power in the porn industry are more like the CEOs of supermarket chains - they want the cheapest suppliers and don't care about the goods. Making good porn costs a bit more (you have to pay people good rates for starters), it's perceived as an untried quantity, the men who are usually in charge are not interested in women;s viewpoints - but this is not exclusive to the porn industry. The whole of the media is uninterested in 'women's' issues unless these involve ways to sell women make up and clothes or slimming products.
People will tell you that the collapse of Scarlet magazine was down to women not liking porn - this is rubbish. Scarlet sank because it wasn't a porn mag, it was just another women's mag full of shoes, make up, 'relationship' advice and one or two not-that-great erotic stories.
Filament is a far more interesting magazine but as yet it's not got big industry backing because it's by and for women and won;t run consumerist features or fasion/beuty puffs.

I think some cultures repress the homoerotic in men more than other cultures. I believe it's particularly oppressed in American men because my female American friend was shocked to see my brother and his mates hugging and play-fighting. Middle-Eastern men tend to touch each other more than British men, squeezing each others' legs/thighs is acceptable. Russian politicians kiss each other fully on the lips when they greet etc.

I wonder if the more repressed it is in a particular culture, the more it's expressed through the porn tastes of that culture?

"Do you think it's possible that the homoerotic is so repressed in 'straight' man that it has to find it's outlet in porn, which leaves women utterly hard done by porn wise?"

Absolutely agree with this. Feminists have written about this

cunillingus features highly in japanese porn (I learned that off a website for students in Japan).
OTOH bukkake def orginiates in japan, which is definitely more to do with male homoerotic bonding than anything else.

"if, as the psychoanalysts argue, a part of the emergence of a male gay sexuality (the psychosocial part, as opposed to the possible role of genes etc, all of which play a role in all of our sexualities) is difficulty, making the transition to same sex identification which can result from a man-hating mother (dominant mother who for whatever reason unconscious or not trashes the father, who may or may not be absent) then that very lack of identification with the male might well be underpinned by a rage against the female."

I'm not sure that I agree with this because gay men sort of like women so much more than straight men do, and many have great relationships with their mothers.

But lots of people do want porn that's about happy people enjoying sex. And lots of people want to make porn that's consensual and fun for the performers etc. Unfortunately, based on my own experiences within the industry, what tends to happen is that a lot of the people with actual power (ie distrubutors etc) are not interested - not so much because they hate women and want to see them mistreated, but because they despise their own product and particularly despise their customers, so they are not prepared to take any more notice than 'Oh they'll buy any old crap, fuck off with your arty farty nonsense, this stuff is what the punter wants.'

ANd there is nothing wrong with sex as performance, or watching others have sex, or choosing to have sex for money.

I need to go to bed now though.

And no, I'm not taking a videocamera with me

night all

But do we not form a market due to societal pressures? All the usual stuff - upbringing, socialisation, access, peer pressure etc etc

I think that there is a market for porn for women. Adult women. But the porn market for males takes them from puberty to grave. So there is loads of it.

If you read threads on here (not the feminist section) a lot of women say they use porn (the usual made by men for men variety). If women knew there was an "ethical" version maybe they would view that instead?

Don't know.

I also want to feel that I can talk about this without being seen as a defender of the mainstream porn industry, which is very far from how I feel.

Leningrad, I agree with you. I don't see the point in a piece of writing or film which just depicts sex acts - they simply aren't that interesting in isolation.

xposts!