straight pornography is male gay in sensibility

I have watched a fair bit of porn in my time, yes (mainly in my youth, it has to be said) @LynetteScavo. I am no prude, but it does not interest me particularly now (although I consider myself a very sexual person).

I do NOT think there is anything wrong with homosexuality. I would defend the rights of gay women and men to the death. Not even an issue for me. I do think the domination of the fashion industry by older gay men has implications for women, yes. But my concerns are not directed at all gay men. No way.

My main concern on this thread i the way that the porn industry has become a multimillion (billion?) pound industry, based largely on the exploitation and subjugation of women. That concerns me greatly.

I sound like I know loads about porn. I really don't. I have seen a few american standard style films and a few anna span films and that's it. The rest is all just guesswork and things I've read.

sophable yes and a few years ago I read that amateur porn was very popular - videos that were home movies by couples and other groupings. ie real people actually enjoying themselves

Then the porn industry got wind of it and now there is a slew of professional "amateur" porn.

That's interesting ISNT. I suppose the market has exploded, driven by the internet. I wonder how far it will go?

You all seem to have quite an in depth knowledge of porn.

Do you all really familiarise yourselves with such porn on a regular basis?

I have been asking DH some pertinent questions.

He says that he prefers the porn made "by women for women" as the people are more "normal" and the participants (both men and women) look more like they're actually enjoying themselves.

He also had a bit of a go talking about how like hollywood films, porn films are formulaic, and how if one is successful then maybe the others all put the same elements in plus some to try and replicate the success. He then went off at a bit of a tangent talking about 3D (yikes!). And then as a grand finale he tried to illustrate his point by saying "you know that 2 cups film or whatever it is, they would say, lots of people have seen that on the internet, it's very famous, let's do the same but this time make it 3 cups". Bless.

Yes smallorange. I think the root of the question is 'does porn feature degradation just because it's porn or because porn is used as a vehicle to degrade women?'

sorry 'if'

EricNorthmansmistress. Quite!

Well yes I suppose anyone can exploit someone else is they are in a weaker position.

You do wonder if porn scenarios are similar whatever the sexuality because alot of it is about power, dominance and submission.

Reasonabledoubt has a good theory there.

Blinder I've seen a bit of fairly tame gay porn. It tends to be two fairly attractive men enjoying themselves AFAIK. Very different to straight porn, which is a man enjoying himself, and a woman pretending to, as far as I can see.

Smallorange I'm not saying that. I'm saying that straight porn is degrading to women. And that lesbian porn might or might not be. Just because women make it, doesn't mean it doesn't harm women. Women can be guilty of misogyny too of course. Women can also exploit other women. It's one of the effects of living in a patriarchal society.

Just wanting us not to make any assumptions about porn we haven't seen.

I think the point about using those orifices are that they don't actually give the woman any sexual pleasure

Dittany, how wrong you are!

Me too reasonable doubt.

I think that blinder's point is what I was thinking about porn made by women for (straight) women - that given the prevlence of mainstream heterosexual porn for men, the sort of way it all works might be difficult to get away from as everyone knows "what porn looks like" IYSWIM. So eg a woman making porn might make porn which is unlike porn made by men to an extent, but still be unable to entirely escape the typical porn style/scenarios/roles etc IYSWIM

Dunno.

I have seen porn made by women for women if that helps? I'm not about to go and watch a load of lesbian porn to keep you lot happy

No, I don't think anyone has said that. I don't think anyone on this thread has any knowledge of lesbian porn. I would love to know what lesbian porn is like!

really - so a lesbian making lesbian porn for other lesbians is degrading other lesbians?

Blimey

they kidding

Oh men love looking at other men's cocks. All men. Who are the kidding?

When I said (wrongly as it turned out) that it would be difficult to find genuine lesbian porn, I wasn't issuing a challenge ISNT.

Interesting. But just because women make it, doesn't mean it's not degrading to women of course. Patriarchy rules ok.

I'm interested in male gay porn because it's made by men. I wonder if they subject themselves to the same humiliation.

How weird, I was just thinking about this today.

Someone - can't remember who - has suggested that the act of consuming hardcore straight pornography is essentially homoerotic, and that the real erotic focus of the porn is a)the male protagonist or b) in situations where men watch/discuss/compare/joke about porn together, the 'mate' with whom the porn is shared.

She distinguished between softcore, where the female object is the focus of, and is trapped by the male gaze - which fact is both its function and its appeal - and hardcore, where the focus is the male protagonist's cock. She argued that while it's true that there was an element of identification with the male protagonist in hardcore, the overarching structural function was the fetishization of the cock of another man, which is, in culture, both constantly present (in loos etc) and infinitely absent (cultural imperative not to actually look.