in a nutshell... what are the 3 twilight books about?

Sigh, neither monkeyfeathers nor I are saying these books should be burned.

I myself am saying they are fine to be enjoyed (save Breaking Dawn because it is just dross) as escapism and as fluff, but the bones of the story, the romance between Bella and Edward is at its core very unhealthy.

Nobody (perhaps besides Meyer herself) should take my opinion so personally, nor do I wish to be perceived as someone with no sense of imagination. I am a big reader of urban fantasy so a huge proportion of books I own are full of werewolves, witches, ghosts, necromancers and yes, the odd vampire. All I am saying with regards the T saga is that I believe the love story is not one I would like my DD longing for--for a boy who loves her like Edward does. I wouldnt mind her reading them when she's older but I'd hope she'd take them with a pinch of salt as I do...

That being said DD is only 6 months old so I have a while to wait until she can read these sorts of books!

Sorry MBM

I love my vamps, ghouls and werewolves!! maybe Twilight was too much of a rom read for me. Now True Blood novels i love em!! Team Eric!!

Muffymk, I asked because others have given very strong opinions on this subject in the past who, it turned out, hadn't even read any of the books, which I found utterly ludicrous. Apparently they'd 'read some magazine articles' so therefore felt well enough informed to comment.

Nelix, I was bored by the Anne Rice books. I gave up halfway through the first one. And they're full of vampire cliches like sleeping in coffins etc.

Dear MattBellamysMuse

Er yes I have read the books!!! why would I post???and seen the both films (my friend is a twimom!!) As I may of said before Rosalie and Alice seem to have a much more interesting back story.

I thought the whole point of being a vampire IS that you are murdering left right and centre? where is the danger??

If someone told me that they were gonna imprint my newborn baby I would rip their head off!

But this is my opinion!! and no doubt I will sit through Eclipse with my friend and debate about vampire lore in RL

Uh.. 'sex before marriage' was meant to be struck out. Sorry.

On the thing about it just being fiction. Fiction is a place where we can imagine better (or worse) worlds for ourselves without any of the restrictions of reality, and where our satisfaction as readers is often linked to the kinds of justice that the ending delivers. Just because a book successfully enlists our sympathies on behalf of a character who is good looking and largely fits the model of the kind of masculinity we are, in our culture, attracted to, it doesn't mean that it's not pernicious that he is also sado-masochistic and fits the psychological profile of an abuser, or equally that it's not pernicious that he's the brainchild of a Mormon who actually does believe that sex is dangerous and that women are inherently sinful.

Enjoying a story and having a critical eye to the way that story manipulates our emotions or feelings are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

Here's my summary:

Mormon Creationist warns women that sex before marriage sex is dangerous, and reminds us all that if we are sexually or violently abused by men he didn't really want to do it and it's all our fault for being such a God-damn temptation.

Hideous!

does no one read anne rice anymore? Lestat is a vampire who doesn't twinkle, thankfully!! read the vampire chronicles if you want a taste of good writing aimed at adults. LOVE them, was bored silly with twilight gumph

Monkeyfeathers and littlewhitewolf: Come on, its fiction fgs, my ds is 12 and just loves these books, she hasn't got any hang up-s with the "freakish pregnancy" or anything about a stalker. Unheathly to read, what rubbish. It's a love story at the end of the day, doesn't mean that my ds will go out looking for a guy who wants her all the time or stalks her. Why can't you just take the books for what they are a light-hearted love story.

Sorry about the spoliers. I was trying not to say anything specific about the plot. It's very hard to explain the problems without giving stuff away though.

Uhg, I couldn't help coming back on to this thread and now I've seen some spoilers, argh!

I like the sparkly vegitarian vampires, I like the variety, at the end of the day vampires are a fictional creation and I don't see why everyone should stick to the same version. I grew up watching Buffy/Angel so it's nice to have someone with a slightly different take on things.

Just because it's a fantastical situation, doesn't mean it's doesn't relate to ordinary life. Yes, they're vampires and werewolves, so it's not a situation anyone would find themselves in. However, that doesn't make the relationship (or the controlling actions) any less problematic.

As I said before, most of the series is written from Bella's perpective, and this makes a great difference. We aren't getting the literal facts of the situation (however ludicrous and fantastical that situation may be), we are getting the version that Bella rationalises to herself. That could actually be a great strength in a work, but unfortunately the way it's plotted means that everything works out just perfectly and there are no consequences. The events of the book mean that, in the end, it really was 'all for her own good'. I'm not at all sure that's a good message to be sending.

It may be fiction and entertainment, but that doesn't mean that it cannot have powerful effects. It's horribly crafted fiction, but the ideas (if not the absolutely literal manifestation of them in the books--vampires, werewolves, freakish pregnancies and all) it conveys still matter. The great power of literary fiction llies in it's ability to convey ideas in a non-literal manner.

"Vampires who sparkle?? what is all that about? and do not feed? er whats the point??"

They do feed, but on animals instead of humans so they don't have to go round murdering left right and centre. And the sparkling thing is why most vampires stay hidden in the daylight. But the ones in Forks can lead a relatively normal life because there's so little sunshine, which is why they live there.

Have you actually read the books or are you posting opinions on something you haven't read?

"In breaking dawn, Bella can no longer see her family or school friends (not that she really had any). She only gets to see Charlie for ridiculous and dramatically unsatisfying reasons."

Because she's freakishly pregnant with a vampire's baby/a vampire. People would notice if Bella saw them.

Really, why is it so hard to get your head round?

It's fiction, entertainment not a lifestyle manual.

By monkeyfeathers: 'Edward is very controlling about how and when Bella can see Jacob. The 'keeping her safe' stuff is almost like an exaggerated version of the ways in which many abusers justify their controlling ways. Bella also rationalises the danger and control issue throughout the books.'

Jacob is a werewolf not just any ordinary boy. And a new werewolf with limited control over his anger.
Again, that's not a situation any normal teenager is likely to face.

I'm not sure breaking into a girl's bedroom, spying on her constantly and following her around are necessarily to do with passion and restraint. That screams stalker to me, and dangerous stalker at that given he's admitted he wants to kill her.

There is abstinence stuff in there, but it is lumped in with so much that's worrying.

Also we get most of the story from bella's pov, so all we get are rationalisations for the dubious controlling behaviour. The difference between Romeo and Juliet (for example) and twilight is that the unhealthy obsession masquerading as 'love' there does not end well, and nor should it. The problematic nature of the relationship is never properly explored and any consequences of it are brushed under the carpet. I agree that the bit from jacob's pov is by far the best bit of breaking dawn.

Thing that annoyed me most about breaking dawn is how unsatisfying it all is. It just isn't interesting when everything works out so perfectly and conveniently for everyone. I can't say more without giving more than is fair away, but so much of the plotting is horrible. Really badly done. Considering meyer has a degree in English lit, she must know she's produced an extremely shoddy piece of literature.

That said, I'll happily defend the right to readand even enjoycrappy literature.

Monkerfeathers is absolutely right.

"you're like my personal type of heroin"
There's romance--I love you like an addict loves heroin

Bella herself likens their relationship to Heathcliff and Cathy and Romeo and Juliet, and I'm sure we'd agree these are equally unhealthy relationships.

The only good part of Breaking Dawn was the section where Jacob narrates and thats only because I think Jacob for all his whining and grumpiness is actually one of the nicest characters in the book IMO.

dawntigga - love it.

Funny how different people's take on this can be. What looks to some like an abusive relationship to me is about passion and restraint. Edward knows it is wrong to do what Bella is asking him to do and tries to resist. The author is a mormon and they don't believe in sex before marriage - analogy is obvious.

Compared to most teenage reads this is pretty harmless. I've only seen one film so far but that was dreadful even the teenagers fell about.

The real question worth asking is: why exactly are the vampires trying to hide their existence from humans? Its not like they need to.

Big hairy spider's summary is great.

Edward is very controlling about how and when Bella can see Jacob. The 'keeping her safe' stuff is almost like an exaggerated version of the ways in which many abusers justify their controlling ways. Bella also rationalises the danger and control issue throughout the books.

In breaking dawn, Bella can no longer see her family or school friends (not that she really had any). She only gets to see Charlie for ridiculous and dramatically unsatisfying reasons. She can't even speak to her mother on the phone. Indeed, despite claiming that her mother is her best friend, Bella sees her only once during the entire series.

To be honest it sets up a really unhealthy and dangerous situation as the ideal of true love. The books make reference to famous (and far better conceived) dysfunctional literary romances. However, unlike those romances, twilight does not end in tragedy.

Romeo and Juliet with bad teeth.

HTHTiggaxx

this is how the Edward should be dealt with

dons tin hat

What royalty said.

That Edward is always walking around with a bad smell under his nose.

Now if they concentrated more on Rosalie and Alice then it might be interesing!!

Vampires who sparkle?? what is all that about? and do not feed? er whats the point??

Now Spike from 'Buffy' thats a proper vamp...swoon

ill go back into lurkdom now

I love the books but they can be summed up thus...

"I like your face, your face is great, I like your face too much and because I like your face I might end up hurting you so I'd better try not to like your face"

"I can't decide who's face I like best."