in a nutshell... what are the 3 twilight books about?

It's not that unhealthy relationships shouldn't be in fiction! But Wuthering Heights is an exploration of the nature of self-destruction, for instance, asking its readers to consider the power of sexual obsession, to consider whether violence and self-destructiveness are inherited or acquired, to question where the blame might lie. And it's a tragedy. It's not the same as presenting an unhealthy relationship as the ultimate goal and happy ending of the story, without any self-questioning or self-awareness whatsoever.

I just think it's a bit insidious to use romance fiction to peddle this kind of message, so that we get pleasure from the way the book is written and put together and ignore its darker content. It's like a racist joke - the structure of the joke might be funny, the comic might deliver it with excellent comic timing, and many people might laugh because the joke is well-constructed. But it's racist and its content is not funny at all, but really damaging. Where do you draw the line at what you will accept from a fiction just because it's written in an enjoyable way?

Anyway, I don't know why I've come over all Puritan! I do think it's possible to enjoy these books for fun, and I certainly wouldn't stop my daughters (if I had any) reading them. I just think learning to spot, and take with a pinch of salt, these things is a good thing.

I'm bored of this now.

The only difference between Edward and the multitude of classic male characters out there is that their characters are explored as great literary figures whereas Edward is read by teen girls (and older women) who hold him up as some amazing guy who's just out to love Bella.

Personally I think all of them from Romeo, to Mr Rochester, to Heathcliff to Edward are complete pricks. And dont get me started on Mr Darcy!

But whatever, if it makes girls/women happy then great.

part of the point of Twilight is that vampires can resist their baser instincts - so they are capable of change.

Romeo and Juliet ends badly only because of their families, Heathcliff I don't remember.

"Twilight is, then, wish-fulfillment abstinence porn." - yep, agree with that. Still prefer my teenager to be reading that rather than the hard core porn that the boys they meet are reading!

MBM: as I said before, the big difference between Romeo and Juliet and twilight is that the ridiculous obsession in the former does not end well (neither does the obsession in wuthering heights). In twilight we get a happily ever after wherein the obsession can and will continue forever because vampires are almost incapable of change. In this sense, it misses the point of Romeo and Juliet completely (which is particularly silly since meyer insists on making the comparison herself).

BooHooMonkey: yes it is narrated by a teenage girl, so it is going to be an angst-fest and more than a little unrealistic. However, it also means we do not get a complete picture of events. All we know is that Bella believes that Edward is some perfect, selfless creature who does it all for her. It doesn't mean that he is.
The fact that meyer reinforces this perspective in the draft of midnight sun is actually to the detriment of the series as a whole. All-consuming teenage crushes do not and cannot continue that way forever, and nor should they, but in twilight they do.

Twilight is, then, wish-fulfillment abstinence porn.

A quick summary of the twilight series?

Hormonally overwhelmed teenage girl has to choose between necrophilia or bestiality

Sorry, just had to post on this thread and point out that the story is told fom the POV of a Teenage Girl! That's why the romance seems so obsessive and all consuming- because teenage crushes are like that! It's the equivalent of watching Indiana Jones and saying 'Hmmn, no, he couldn't survive being thrown half a mile in a fridge.....'
Personally I loved it because it reminded me of what it felt like to be so young and full of romance.

well he can control me anyway he likes, he is HOT.

i mean how can you be soo mean about this

Well said Mystic. Romeo and Juliet is a great example of an unhealthy obsession (they both end up dead!) and yet every teenager in the land has to read it for school at some point.
There's something about the Twilight series that's completely addictive (for some of us, at least). I don't know what it is but it's there.
I still refuse to see Edward as abusive. Surely abusers manipulate people and situations for their own selfish reasons. Edward only ever has Bella's happiness at heart.
Sure he gets overprotective the love of his life is threatened by vindictive vampires on one side and immature werewolves on the other side. But in the end Bella tells him to butt out and he does. In fact he ends up being a bit of a doormat. Hardly a classic abuser.

I have to say that the whole twilight thing had passed me by, until this week, four books in four days including an embarrassing incident in the library in which I insisted they MUST have BD, and then payed the full £15 in the independent book shop because I couldn't wait!

Needless to say i had a rather obsessive week and could definitely be considered a twi-slut! and the books were made all the more enjoyable by interspersing them with TeamEdwards and Mystics wonderful fanfics... love 'em guys!

btw... hilarious twilight recaps courtesy of the awesome cleolinda jones

i can't believe i have missed this discussion till now!

I have a lot of sympathy for all who say the relationship is unhealthy, the messages to girls are bizarre etc etc. I would also agree the writing is not stellar and the saga is drawn out- Twilight and Breaking Dawn are enough.

However- Mr Rochester was a manipulative bigamous asshole who drove his first wife crazy before imprisoning her and then preyed on a young destitute orphan. Don't get me started on Heathcliff. Or most of Shakespeare's lovers. And yet- those are epic lovestories that generations of young women have read, swooned to, re-read, obsessed about etc and the vast majority are not in abusive relationships right now.

I do believe teenage girls can figure things out for themselves. I very much doubt that they will use the Edward/Bella pattern to establish their romantic lives.

As for twilight mums sluts like us, well, we just love a bit of escapism even if it's not cool to admit it!

though, i have to say i wasn't keen on breaking dawn, i thought it was too big and sometimes she rambled.. as if she knew she couldn't top eclipse. Plus wasn't keen on the imprinting as it made it feel slightly creepy, nor did i enjoy the sex bruising fiasco..just my opinions ladies.

Love it... i read all 4 in two weeks and i'm 26

I'd read that The Vampire Lestat was a great book but I got sidetracked by some other books. I'll give them another go, starting tomorrow.

Ooooh mattbellamysmuse enjoy! Interview with a vampire is slow but worth Reading and the next one, the vampire lestat is brilliant and helps explain the first one.

Monkeyfeathers, who says I'm taking any of it personally?
I'm merely having a *debate. You state your opinion, I state mine. That's how it works.

Nelix, you're right I can't judge the Anne Rice books by half of the first one. I wasn't totally bored so maybe I'll give them another go. i bought a set of three on ebay.

Stakes thread through the heart

Trouble is, I've heard/read all the arguments against it but it's like scoffing a whole bar of room-temperature Galaxy - I should know better but I don't care

That's a great link SGB.

Sandy22: I never said they were unhealthy to read. I said that the way in which the books develop their themes and characters is worrying. There's a big difference.

I also said that as both prose and literature they are very poor quality. That also is not saying that they shouldn't be read, just that they aren't very good (breaking dawn is utterly dire). There is not a cat in hell's chance that breaking dawn would have been published by anyone if it wasn't part of a hugely popular series (and therefore would sell millions no matter how terrible it was).

MBM: like LWW, I don't understand why you're taking any of this so personally. Neither of us said you were wrong to enjoy them.

That said, saying 'oh come on, it's only literature' is a bit silly. Books can be incredibly influential, for good or for ill, particularly books which reach a mass audience. There are always multiple ways to read a book, but the unhealthiness of the relationship is definitely and demonstrably there and even celebrated by the series.

MattBellamysMuse if you gave up half way through the first, you cannot say you were bored of her "books" plural nor can you say they are cliched in that as you progress through them you see why Louis chose to sleep in a coffin. Agree though the first is a slow read but it sets a premis for the rest. Also if you do read them you see where meyers and other writers base their vampires on.

I've just started watching Twilight again as I saw it before I read the books - God it's awful! The girl that plays Bella constantly looks like she's fighting the urge to be sick, and RPatt I'm afaid is not as hot as his pictures, although it's almost certainly due to that ridiculous white facepaint they have on him, when he's not so white he looks much better. Also - give that boy a haircut!!

Twilight? It's basically about persuading teenage girls that abusive men are romantic, and enjoyable sex is bad for you.