Pride and Prejudice - in the view of 2026 society is Mr. Wickham simply a predator?

@mids2019 “without a hint of sex?”

There were extramarital affairs and adultery in Jane Austen’s books. JA never describes physical intimacy, but sex is heavily implied.

I thought that the whole Lydia thing was driven by Wickham's spite. He saw Darcy's interest in Lizzie and tried to scupper Darcy they Darcy had scuppered him. Is that not right?

Lydia is headstrong and capricious, and as such deserves some criticism.

But, as is pointed out throughout the book, she has been let down by both parents. She has not been schooled (Lady de Burgh is appalled that she had no governess), her behavior at house parties, and out and about is vulgar and rude, but she is indulged rather than corrected - gentle parenting Austin style? 😁
So - Wickham did not have to work too hard, in that Lydia was up for fun and a laugh.

On the other hand, his other victim, Darcy's sister, is carefully curated, is all that Lydia is not, and yet he managed to get her too!

Wickham definitely likes them young - Lizzie points that out. But he also likes money.

That's VERY interesting, but I hesitate to judge older books by contemporary standards.

Seems to me that Catherine Morland was just 16 or so in Northanger. The sins at the time were the lies and greed, and that's more than enough.

One other interesting thing about Lydia’s characterisation is that she is completely unrepentant. Even Lizzy and Jane, who have known her all her life, assume that when she comes back to Longbourn after her marriage that she’ll be embarrassed, contrite. But she is the opposite - loudly talking about the circumstances in which the marriage took place, seeing the elopement as a ‘good joke’, chastising Mr and Mrs Gardner for being cross with her. I don’t think it’s as simplistic as portraying Lydia as responsible for her own downfall, but certainly Austen was making some kind of point that Lydia and Wickham are operating outside the norms of decent society.

NoctuaAthene yes, Austen was portraying society as it was, not as she would have liked it to be.

I also think a point Austen very much is making is the disparity in consequences of their behaviour between Wickham and Lydia (and by extension the Bennett sisters) - both suffer fundamentally from similar problems/character flaws of being penniless, not if especially good or notable families, and also profligate, impulsive, badly educated/brought up, the sorts of people who would think it's a jolly good lark to run off together to London without being married - yet Wickham despite being very, very clearly far more culpable, far more deliberate, far more evil basically than Lydia who is constantly described as thoughtless, silly etc rather than calculatingly bad - Wickham basically could and does get away with the whole thing with no ill consequences. He tries to run away with Georgiana Darcey and gets away with it, he lies to everyone to Meryton and runs up a load of debts and gets away with it, he very nearly gets away with seducing then abandoning Lydia and even when caught his 'punishment' is to be made to marry her, have all his debts paid, a nice new job and fresh start. Whereas poor Lydia has her reputation tarnished forever, a nasty husband she's stuck with - and that's the very, very best possible outcome for her, a miracle basically. One youthful mistake in running off with Wickham very well could and probably more likely would have resulted in absolute misery, prostitution and/or destitution - and her sisters and wider family also would have been completely condemned and unable to marry well or maybe at all due to the collateral damage. I don't think this differential of consequences between men and women who 'sin' was at all lost on Austen or depicted in the books in this way by accident (as others have mentioned its there in different ways in sense and sensibility, persuasion, Mansfield park).

Yes, but her desperation (while entirely understandable — she’s almost certainly much younger than Mr Bennet, and is likely to outlive him and possibly end up living like the Bateses in Emma in a couple of rooms over a shop in Merton with whichever daughters haven’t married) actively gets in the way of Jane and Lizzy marrying well by her heavy-handed stratagems, crass talk about the others being thrown in the path of other rich men when Jane and Bingley marry etc etc. And letting the younger three make an exhibition of themselves all the time.

This point is covered in the book though - it's explained that he was basically at desperation point with gambling debts (debts of honour), debts to tradespeople and (it's implied) various other scandals that he essentially has to flee Brighton and his regiment anyway. And when people question why bother taking Lydia with him when he had no intention of marrying her - it's said in so many words that Lydia basically makes it clear she's completely head over heels for him and can be talked into anything, and he's 'not the kind of young man to decline female company' or similar - and from what he knows of the Bennetts he doesn't think they'd have the energy or means to track them down. So yes I guess kind of putting quite a lot of the blame on Lydia, but also on Mr Bennett for being such a shit father Wickham doesn't forsee any consequences for ruining his daughter.

Wickham's plan, such as it was (and in justice to Austen she obviously doesn't portray this as either morally good or fiscally sensible plan!) was to lay low in London with Lydia for a few months until the storm of him leaving the regiment blows over, then abandon her and move to another part of the country, perhaps join another militia and keep looking for a wealthy wife. And to be fair to him this almost works, if it wasn't for Darcey happening to find out (and Elizabeth would never have asked him for help of her own accord, too shameful) it's implied Mr Bennett and Mr Gardiner couldn't have tracked them down before Lydia's reputation was irreprably ruined and potentially they wouldn't have had enough money to buy him off and/or the influence to get him a commission (an officer's position in the army). And then all the Bennetts really would have been screwed...

Running off with Lydia brought him nothing but a bit of sex and a whole heap of trouble

That marriage was not going to end well once the sex wore off - a series of flits from lodgings because of debts, appealing to the rich inlaws for help, quarrels over his lady friend and her men friends and the amount they were both spending...

And it won't have done his military career any good.

Mrs Bennet was desperate to marry her daughters off. With no male heir, she knew the sisters would be virtually penniless and homeless when Mr Bennet died. I really feel for Mrs Bennet.

I always thought it was a loose plot point that had Wickham run off with Lydia - even with no intention of marrying her. If he had succeeded in eloping with Georgiana Darcy he would have had access to her money/family connections. And he was also trying it with the heiress (can't remember her name) whose family moved her away (the nasty freckled thing :) ) Running off with Lydia brought him nothing but a bit of sex and a whole heap of trouble - with the leader of his regiment, people who have some connections etc.

surely another obvious thing he and Mrs B could have done to improve Jane and Lizzy’s chances of matrimony is to keep their embarrassing younger sisters out of the public view for a few years.

I get the feeling that Mrs B was like Lydia when she was young - bouncy, good humoured, fun and attractive but vulgar with not much idea of social etiquette, and his attraction lasted a few years.Then he discovers they have nothing in common so he retreats to his study and leaves the upbringing of the girls to her. And she brings them up the way she was brought up - especially Lydia, who is clearly her favourite.
Her behaviour is self-defeating because she knows they need to be married, but the way she goes about it and the behaviour of the whole family works against them.

I think because JA is generally so clear & easy to read compared to other 18th & early 19th century authors, it’s really easy to overlook phrases like this where the meaning is obscure (unless you have an edition with decent footnotes & you are prepared to read them all).

It’s not just P&P - despite knowing Mansfield Park fairly well, I only realised on my recent re-read that Dr Grant had sued Mrs Norris about the state of the rectory when he took it over, which really highlights her meanness. There is no way that I could have worked that out from the text without a footnote.

Yes, absolutely - the book was very critical of the Bennett parents for being careless in many things. In many ways Lydia's 'discrace' was their fault for being neglectful of their daughter's education and keeping her so ignorant and yet allowing her far too much freedom, and it's not dumb luck that stops Lydia from ruining all of their prospects thereby compounding the other errors the Bennetts made in raising their daughters.

Yes — obviously Lady Catherine is rude to quiz Lizzy about it, but she’s not wrong that it suggests something fundamentally off about the way the Bennets are raising their daughters. We hear about how Mr Bennet knows he should have saved so that, even if they never had a son to inherit, the girls have slightly more money after his death, but surely another obvious thing he and Mrs B could have done to improve Jane and Lizzy’s chances of matrimony is to keep their embarrassing younger sisters out of the public view for a few years.

Lizzy really is only to blame for not telling her family (other than Jane) about what she learned from Darcy’s letter - and there were good reasons for her choice not to do that.

And the fact that Miss B isn't even engaged despite being in her early 20s, beautiful and intelligent and with good manners suggests that financially they're not good marital prospects.

And that's before he sees Lydia's antics and listens to Mrs B. So without even talking to any member of the Bennet family he has all the information he needs about them and you can see why he warns Bingley off. Jane might be all the things the books says she undoubtedly is, but can you imagine some of the female Bennets as in laws given how amiable Bingley is? they'd walk all over him.

Mr Bennet is very flawed!

Like @Bestbeforenow I dislike Mr Bennett’s comment about Wickham, even if it was sarcastic. Due to his general failures as a father. At one point earlier on he does acknowledge his failures regarding Lydia.

I don’t find Mr Bennett at all likeable.

It’s also just about how seriously social etiquette as regards ‘seniority’ was taken, even in the informality of a private home like Longbourn.

Darcy knows immediately about the Bennet girls from that alone. Miss Bennet and all her sisters are at a ball. The fact that they're all out despite the eldest girl not being married or even engaged means the Bennets are careless about social etiquette. And the fact that Miss B isn't even engaged despite being in her early 20s, beautiful and intelligent and with good manners suggests that financially they're not good marital prospects.

It’s also just about how seriously social etiquette as regards ‘seniority’ was taken, even in the informality of a private home like Longbourn.

@Bestbeforenow “I do struggle with Mr Bennet’s eventual fondness for Wickham”

Mr Bennet was not fond of Mr Wichham. His comment about him being his favourite son-in-law was pure sarcasm!

Ah yes I hadn’t realised that before.

thank you!