Pride and Prejudice - in the view of 2026 society is Mr. Wickham simply a predator?

I think the 1995 made an attempt at explaining the ramifications of the Lydia/Wickham but IIRC it was mostly via Mr Collins telling Mr B to let Lydia never darken his doorstep again - which would have been a typical reaction of the time. But Mr C is established as a buffoon so most people wouldn't take notice of what he said.

Was it made clear in adaptations that Lydia is only 15? I think Lizzie might mention it to Lady Catherine but IIRC that isn't made explicit; and Julia Sawalha of course looks older than 15 anyway.

I think they absolutely can - whether they do or not is another question. To be fair, a hard hitting examination of misogyny, grooming and sexual abuse is hardly an obvious commercial / popular success regardless of if it's a period drama or a modern urban story or high fantasy... There's a portion of the audience that really just want a beautiful bonnets and romance story - a bit of escapism, and who's to blame them.

That being said I do think a lot of those undertones and implications are there in modern JA adaptations - take the 2008 sense and sensibility TV adaptation (gosh nearly 10 years ago) - that made the very conscious decision to bring the off-screen seduction of a teenage girl by Willoughby the romantic anti-hero onto screen, where in the novel and previous adaptations it's only mentioned by the characters and not actually portrayed. They deliberately showed her as a young and innocent girl as well. Obviously it's only one scene and you could definitely overlook it, but iirc it's one of the very first scenes so definitely there. I haven't seen the new film yet so interesting to see how it's handled?

I don't think they can. Modern audiences would be horrified by an accurate portrayal of attitudes from JA's era. It would never get as far as the screen.

Downton Abbey got some stick because as some critics said, the Crawleys had the political and social attitudes of Lib Dems. A series that really showed the attitudes of the aristocracy from the 1900s - sexual, political social, familial - wouldn't have made it past the pilot episode.

I mean, it was considered pretty normal for men to think in terms of the finances of the women they are paying attention to.

That was because on marriage to an heiress, all her money became the man's totally. Women did not keep their own money on marriage until the 1880s.

Husbands could spend, sell, or give away their wives' money and personal property at will, any property became the husband's property and a married woman had no legal existence separate from her husband.

Heiresses were very, very tempting to someone like Wickham.

But she's responding to Lydia saying that 'Wickham is safe' (because Miss King with the inheritance around whom he was sniffing has gone to live with her uncle in Liverpool), and what Lizzy actually says is 'Mary King is safe -- safe from a connection imprudent as to fortune.' I think all Lydia means is that Lizzy hasn't lost him to someone else (because it's not so long since she had a marked preference for him, and he for her), and he's still free for them all to flirt with at balls.

Even though Lizzy now knows about Wickham's attempt to get Georgiana Darcy to elope with him, she's still just saying 'Well, it's best that Mary King didn't marry someone when they're ill-matched financially.'

I mean, it was considered pretty normal for men to think in terms of the finances of the women they are paying attention to.

Lizzy has just had nice Colonel Fitzwilliam, who is very taken with her, tell her quite directly that men of his rank of life (younger son of an earl) cannot marry where they like because they lack the money to marry purely for love. And he's no Wickham, he's presented as a man of good sense, good manners etc.

What an interesting thread. The difference in life experience between the average British 15-year-old girl now and Lydia Bennett is very striking.

Basically she's been indulged all her life and allowed to do exactly what she wants.

So she does; except that in the case of eloping with Wickham that could have had catastrophic consequences for her and her family. But, someone rescues her (and I bet that's a pattern) so she never learns. More than not learning, she doesn't actually care.

At some point in her future, the Darcys and the Bingleys weren't going to tow her out of whatever mess she got herself into and let her sort it out for herself. I bet Darcy was more than capable of saying 'Nope, we're not lending her any more money. We're not housing her when the landlord chucks her out and she's off with another man. We're not housing her and the kids for months.' But people like Lydia will ALWAYS bounce back, so they never actually learn.

It's very difficult for us to think ourselves back into a world where the age of consent was not 16. As already stated on this thread, the age of consent for girls was 12, as it had been since 1275. It was increased to 13 in 1875 and to 16 ten years after that. Yes, you needed your parents' permission to marry if you were under 21 (in England) but if they were willing to give it you could be married at an age when many parents now hardly let their children out of the house unsupervised. (Thinking here of a neighbours' kid who didn't even walk to the bus on his own to go to school until he was nearly 14.)

This is quite an interesting overview of the history of the age of consent. https://cyh.rrchnm.org/teaching-modules/230.html

He was driven by money, as his pursuit of wealth relied entirely on the manipulation and exploitation of vulnerable young women.

Wickham is clearly viewed as predator. Elibeth comments "perhaps we should say Miss King is safe"

Yes Lydia is seen as silly and not as protected as she should have been. But that does notbin any way diminish the fact that wickham is a predator

There's one word in your previous post (now visible) which is always automatically hidden. It rhymes with tiptoe.

What an interesting thread. The difference in life experience between the average British 15-year-old girl now and Lydia Bennett is very striking. She hasn't been to school at all and beyond being taught to read, write and do very simple arithmetic seems to have had next to no education. She doesn't read anything serious and probably has little general knowledge. She doesn't play the piano or sing, and I don't remember any mention of her embroidering or drawing or painting china or practising any of the other accomplishments with which genteel young ladies while away the hours and try to impress eligible men and others who might influence an eligible man to consider a particular young woman as a potential wife. She likes clothes and hats and balls and men and gossip.

A modern Lydia Bennett would be on Love Island* or trying to be an influencer. She'd probably do very well.

*Disclaimer: I've never watched Love Island so maybe this is nonsense.

Interesting, I'd never picked that up when I was reading.

Mr Wickham liked exploiting girls that looked like women.

“Lydia was a stout, well-grown girl of fifteen, with a fine complexion and good-humoured countenance.”

"Miss Darcy was tall, and on a larger scale than Elizabeth; and, though little more than sixteen, her figure was formed, and her appearance womanly and graceful.

Lydia was “out” - she was actively on the market for marriage - the whole activity of Mrs Bennett is getting her girls married.
Wickham is a scammer/groomer - he’d been after Georgiana Darcy already - although she had money and Lydia didn’t so he was only after Lydia for sex.
Lydia was daft as a brush
Mr And Mrs Bennet were bad parents - Mrs Bennett as daft as her favourite child and, like Lydia was focussed on a handsome groom in regimentals and “bagging” a husband, rather than thinking what an areshole he was. Mr Bennett knew his death would leave his family in dire financial straits but just sat about making sarcastic remarks and hiding in his library.
All of these things come together and lead to the elopement.

The ages are different now tho, as in at 15 she'd be much less of a child than now.

But yes he's a predator and Darcy should have spoken ip

Well, I don't think that it's all that far from the truth, but without there being any need for secrecy or a shotgun wedding. We know Mrs Bennett is likely to be younger than Mr Bennet, possibly quite a lot younger, and we know that he married 'down' in class terms because he was (briefly) taken with her beauty, and that they'd clearly married before he realised was 'a woman of mean understanding, little information, and uncertain temper', to the extent that he avoids where possible socialising with his wife, or even sitting with her. They've been married 23 years and Jane is 22 at the start of the novel.

Lydia is her mother over again, but without whatever sense of self-preservation/ambition kept the young Mrs Bennet from shagging an officer. And yes, I think Lydia does remind Mr Bennet of his own youthful stupidity.

@DottysCollywobbles “Upon re-reading recently my opinion of Mr B is that he is useless.”

I agree! Mr Bennet was always retreating to his library instead of actually managing his family.

I agree. Mrs Bennett was weak but also amused and entertained by the antics of her youngest daughters. And as for Mr Bennett - oh so dry and laid back Mrs Bennett was quite right that he should get off his backside and get some introductions going. Upon re-reading recently my opinion of Mr B is that he is useless.

She definitely had a dark sense of humour!!

Jane Austin does not shy away from the dark side of humanity.

He was considered a predator by Jane Austen I believe . I think the book more fully blames Mrs Bennett for not protecting the daughter and being more concerned about getting her daughters married (which in turn blames society for being structured this way) and Mr Bennett for passively standing by while his wife behaved so badly. No one really comes out looking good apart from Darcy who tried to stop him. It's a nuanced portrait that could still easily happen today.

My post at 07:44 has been hidden - I was suggesting a 2026 incarnation of Wickham would be a scammer - I have asked MNHQ to unhide it, it was nothing dodgy or offensive,

What if… what if…..

Me Bennett had been a youthful scoundrel, had seduced a young Mrs B who was of a lower station than him, had been forced to marry her and they are now living out the consequences with him as a recluse in his study and she behaving badly and getting drunk at parties? History repeats itself with Lydia and so they turn a blind eye to her because reprimanding her would be acknowledging their own mistakes and they would in effect be reprimanding themselves, which they can’t face up to.

If Wickham lived in 2026 he would almost certainly be a romance scammer - using dating apps, pretending to be wealthy, stringing along multiple women and getting them to send him money with a variety of stories about crypto investment opportunities, diamonds stuck overseas somewhere, hospital bills for his terminally ill child etc.

I think ‘likes them young’ was not unacceptable in that era- much older men took very young second wives, if they could afford them.

The disapproval re Wickham was more about him liking them young enough to deceive. He flirted outrageously with young and old, hoping to charm a Mama or a daughter with money.