Pride and Prejudice - in the view of 2026 society is Mr. Wickham simply a predator?

Darcy stresses that this seduction almost worked because Georgiana ‘retained a strong impression of his kindness to her as a child’ (though tbh, that may also be a much older brother trying to rationalise it to himself without admitting that his meek baby sister was simply sexually attracted to a charming cad).

Of course, there’s also the fact that devious Mrs Younge and he knew one another, and she seems to have let him know she was at Ramsgate with Georgiana and would look the other way, unlike a proper chaperone/companion.

But yes, as sharp, satirical, clever Lizzy is hugely attracted to Wickham and taken in by him, not just naive Georgiana and silly Lydia, I think we need to acknowledge he was sexy and charming. Even sensible Mrs Gardiner is taken in. She tells Lizzy that if he’d had more money then she ‘could not do better’. He’s good!

Ok so Darcy didn’t tell people about his sister nearly being Wickham’s victim in order to preserve his own Mr D legend and status and future options, rather than speaking out on it for the good of the other girls? So he shows morally sinful pride/self interest in that sense?

That would be a totally fair criticism morally. Same charge also on the slate against Fitzwilliam as the co- guardian of Georgiana then, too. He knew everything.

But Darcy or Fitzwilliam, back in the real Regency world with brutal public morals, could not have been free to do that realistically, surely? because it would have terribly compromised Georgiana’s chance of marriage if the story came out.. Despite her being a young and lovely gazillionaire. So they are stuck.

I’d be a bit disappointed if JA’s only comment on ‘Pride’ wrt Darcy was just he was a bit of a social snob, on guard of his wealth against adventureresses (? If that is a category). Surely JA’s making a deeper political point about sex equality or lack of, with the Pride and Prejudice characterisations, but I can’t quite work it out.

Very good point made above about Mr Bennett. He just sits back and waits for a boy child to inherit everything, putting all the labour on to Mrs Bennett to marry off their girls when no son comes.

I recommend the book Longbourn by Jo Baker which tells the story of P&P from the servant's point of view. In this the Bingleys made their money through slavery (presumably investments rather than getting their hands dirty) which seems a reasonable assumption for the wealthy of the time.

I meant to quote @Turophiles there.

He got Georgiana because she was an innocent, oblivious to the machinations of scheeming men and Wickham could be absolutely charming when he cared, he even took Lizzie in, and she was sharper than most.

Mr Bennet is to blame. Instead of saving money over the years to provide for his wife and daughters, He simply hoped and waited for a son who never arrived.

This is true, but ultimately she isn’t bright enough to see that. I think one can feel both sorry for Mrs B and exasperated by her behaviour.

Wonderful post, thank you!

Mrs Bennet really believed that youth, beauty, and a lively charm were all a young woman needed to catch a husband!

She had married Mr. Bennet based on youth and good looks, so she assumed the same strategy would work for her daughters.

I think Mr Gardiner struck out for himself in trade in London, rather than following his father into the law. He’s clearly clever and doing well, as well as generous and ‘gentlemanlike’ so you’d imagine he’ll possibly continue to amass a considerable fortune in trade, like the Bingleys’ father and grandfather, and that his children/grandchildren may find themselves in Mr Bingley’s position of buying a family seat in the country, safely distanced from the ‘trade’ that made their money.

Her father was an attorney (solicitor) in Meryton— not then a respected profession with much status, like medicine. Her sister, the equally vulgar Mrs Phillips, married their father’s clerk (who took over the business), so one assumes that’s the kind of marriage Mrs B might have been expected to make, had she not been unusually pretty and caught Mr B’s eye.

Love this thread - only lately occurred to me that Darcy by financing Lydia’s marriage and clearing blocks for Bingley wasn’t only demonstrating his love for Lizzy but was also self serving by sanitising her family to make it a more acceptable match for him.

i won’t be able to get the idea of Lydia as a Love Island contender today. Guess she could have resorted to OF when it went t*ts up with Wickham.

Think so, hence the brothers occupation. Mrs B married 'up' because she was good looking, although I always got the impression Austen was trying to portray her family as not being any financially worse off than the Bennets at the time of the book. Mr G must have been doing well in his business to plan for a whole summer travelling.

He must also have been pretty smart and savvy to do so well in business, so I guess it's obvious who was the brains in the family were. But Mrs B perhaps would've been happier if she'd married another well off merchant!

Yes, absolutely. The fact the story opens with Mrs Bennet trying to persuade her husband to call on Mr Bingley, taking her point of view from the novel's famous opening line, sets the tone for her motivation and behaviour throughout.

And she doesn't know any of that stuff because she's not really from the gentry herself, she's a married-in. She thinks because they're all good looking that's the card she has to play.

Isn't she from 'trade,' or a lower middle class background? so she wouldn't get the nuances of how the gentry behave.

She's the one character who never changes or has to change in the book. Her behaviour throughout is utterly consistent with JA's description of her - her business was to get her daughters married.

It depends when you think the novel is set. If you go for around publication date rarher than the earlier date that it was written (which I do admittedly for the very trivial reason that I prefer the fashions & hairstyles of the later date), then she would have been in her 20s for the opening of the S&D & there were lots of earlier colliery engines in the area like Puffing Billy - it just seems inevitable that she would go to see them (the engines are also loud & noisy & there’s nothing like them in Hertfordshire) & probably persuaded the engineers to let her ride on them. Early locos also feature in the later Poldark & in one of Georgette Heyer’s Regency books & I probably know far too much about them as ny DC loved railway museums when very young.

With the main rebuilding, she would have been in her 30s for that, but there were buildings going up earlier than that - Lydia would have been at every opening & touring the building sites etc & writing home that the town was becoming as elegant as Bath. You can imagine her being a complete nuisance to the engineers & foremen, but they would have to be polite to her due to her family connections.

You are right about the barracks probably being the main motivation, but JA exiling her to a town undergoing such major industrial & urban change just seems so perfect for her. It’s easy to imagine an older Lydia as she would be much like her mother, but without the concern to get her children married & settled (as she would just expect her older sisters to sort that out for her).

This is what I mean. It's not for any lack of effort or desire, she really is trying her best, it's just not good enough. And she doesn't know any of that stuff because she's not really from the gentry herself, she's a married-in. She thinks because they're all good looking that's the card she has to play.

She does mention sewing. When she and Kitty collects Lizzie and Maria Lucas following them having visited The Collins. Lydia has bought a "frightful" bonnet and she comments "I shall pull it to pieces as soon as I get home, and see if I can make it up any better"
However I agree with your overall sentiment she is not a studious or inclined to occupy herself in anyway that is not for entertainment and her amusement.

I haven't watched the film but I watched a YouTube video. I gathered that Brandon's first love isn't dead and didn't have a baby, and Willoughby ran off with her, not her daughter :/

WTF?

Most of the centre of Newcastle was rebuilt in the 1830s so later than when Lydia and Wickham were dispatched there. More relevant, there had been lots of soldiers in the area since the middle of the 18th century at Tynemouth and in 1806 the Fenham barracks were built in Newcastle itself. The supply of coal to the rest of the country made it strategically important in the war with Napoleon and before trains (Darlington to Stockton railway was 1825) most of it was transported by ship. I do love the idea of Lydia on that first trip from Darlington to Stockton.

Yes!

Great read on that @KatherineParr

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To be fair to Mrs Bennet, I don't think she knows how to marry off her daughters. Austen describes her as a woman of mean understanding. She knows that marrying well is important but she's done so by chance, not strategy, purely because Mr Bennet was impetuous and wanted to sleep with her. She assumes that it will be the same for her children and her only thought is to put them on the marriage market as soon as possible because she thinks it will maximise their chances of attracting the right partner. She has no real understanding of what would make them attractive marriage partners for rich men, otherwise I think she would be prioritising the governess, foreign languages, and accomplishments angle. She doesn't understand that her own behaviour is inappropriate, so she can't change it to stop damaging her daughters' chances. Mrs Bennet is highly motivated but has no knowledge and Mr Bennet has no motivation, despite his knowledge. They can't work together to mitigate the faults of their partner.

Ah but don't forget, when she connives to get Bingley in her house for dinner, she's sure to order him a good dinner, 2 full courses and the venison roasted to a point, that counts for something surely 😂

When i say she doesn't lift a finger i mean she wants them well married but she doesn't put the work in. She didn't employ a governess for her daughters, she didnt teach them manners or ensure they had some accomplishments, she doesn't ensure that they have good role models to emulate, she doesn't consider keeping the younger sisters home in order to give the elder ones a better chance socially, she doesn't instruct them on the running of a household, she doesn't check the younger girls frolicking around chasing after the officers, she hasn't enough sense to try and befriend Bingleys sisters, (not that it would get her far) and she is stupid enough to be rude to the richest, most eligible man she will ever meet. (Darcy) The only thing she does is send Jane to Bingley's house on horseback when she believes it will rain, and the Bingley sisters despise her for it.