Pride and Prejudice - in the view of 2026 society is Mr. Wickham simply a predator?

That’s not really my point, though, it’s more that it never appears to occur to Lydia at any point that putting herself into the power of a man and sleeping with him while unmarried is either wrong or catastrophically dangerous in the context of her time.

That’s less like not paying any attention at her French lessons/refusing to practice the piano, than it is not having noticed gravity! 😃

I mean, JA just has to do it for the plot, obviously. We can’t be too distracted by Lydia because her actions only matter plotwise insofar as they affect the marital prospects of Elizabeth and Jane. She’s a ‘flat’ character like Mr Collins, who doesn’t change. If JA gave us a terribly remorseful, crushed Lydia, we’d be thinking it was awful she had to marry a predatory cad and it would darken the happiness of Jane and Elizabeth’s endings.

That’s not really my point, though, it’s more that it never appears to occur to Lydia at any point that putting herself into the power of a man and sleeping with him while unmarried is either wrong or catastrophically dangerous in the context of her time.

That’s less like not paying any attention at her French lessons/refusing to practice the piano, than it is not having noticed gravity! 😃

I mean, JA just has to do it for the plot, obviously. We can’t be too distracted by Lydia because her actions only matter plotwise insofar as they affect the marital prospects of Elizabeth and Jane. She’s a ‘flat’ character like Mr Collins, who doesn’t change. If JA gave us a terribly remorseful, crushed Lydia, we’d be thinking it was awful she had to marry a predatory cad and it would darken the happiness of Jane and Elizabeth’s endings.

As @kxeilsaid, no one was parenting them. The girls went after whatever interested them.

No mention of portly! We’re just told he’s ’silent and grave’, ‘on the wrong side of five and thirty’, and ‘not handsome’, though his face is ‘sensible’. And there’s a reference later on to him wearing flannel waistcoats and having rheumatism.

I think that the casting of the male characters is in part why the Ang Lee/Emma Thompson S and S adaptation works. That adaptation makes Edward much more charming, funny and self-deprecating, Brandon smoulderingly sexy and Willoughby more than just a cad. We see why the sisters would fall in love with them. Whereas in the novel, Edward and Brandon are dull though estimable, and Willoughby is a creep.

@whatwouldlilacerullodo — that’s my real question about Lydia. How is it she seems to have missed out on key elements of the moral education her three oldest sisters have clearly had? Did Mrs Bennet just slacken off by the time she got to the two youngest?

@whatwouldlilacerullodo “Everyone failed Lydia, also by not educating her properly.”

The Bennet sisters were left to their own devices. Jane, Lizzy and Mary were more disciplined in educating themselves than Kitty and Lydia. Kitty and Lydia had more frivolous pursuits! Their parents definitely failed them.

“Lizzie asks her father to stop the trip, but he couldn't be bothered.”

Mr Bennet wanted peace and quiet and mistakably thought Lydia would be safe.

"We shall have no peace at Longbourn if Lydia does not go to Brighton".

Hopefully Marianne was happy in her marriage.

“Marianne could never love by halves; and her whole heart became, in time, as much devoted to her husband, as it had once been to Willoughby”

No idea whether he was his son..?

Possible cost of his training depends on what kind of ‘doctor’ he became. There wasn’t really a concept of doctor as we understand it. You were either a physician (highest rank, attended elite universities, considered fully gentlemen, equal to their wealthy clients — whom they never touched! ), a surgeon (intermediate rank, viewed as tradesmen, trained via apprenticeships, set bones, treated wounds, doing surgery), or an apothecary (lowest rank because they had physical shops, mixed drugs, trained via apprenticeships, though in practice they often were surgeon-apothecaries in small places).

Like when Jane is ill at Netherfield, Mr H (not Dr) Jones the apothecary is called from Meryton , but the Bingley sisters are convinced no country advice is any use and want to send for their London physician. Physicians would only practice in big cities or fashionable watering places like Bath.

Mr Perry in Emma, is also a smalltown ‘apothecary’, but presumably also a surgeon, and as he’s clearly the only medic in town, he sees even the elite of Highbury. We can see how well he’s doing financially, as he’s planning to buy a carriage, which was a sign of a significant income!

Wasn't he the Optician's son rather than the assistant, he was a doctor by the end of the series so he had some money behind him to pay for that education. Mrs Bennett didn't want Mary associating with him because she wanted her daughters to marry gentlemen but considering she was a daughter of a solicitor herself she wasn't that far above him socially if it wasn't for her marriage. And Mary ended up marrying a lawyer herself in TOBS.

It wasn't exactly breaking new ground. And my friend felt the same as you, she wanted to see a grittier story of a lady forging her own way in the world through career advancements.

Disclaimer - I haven't watched or read this.

The gritty story suggested would be very much a positive ending through a 21st Century lens. It wouldn't have been seen as a happy ending in Jane Austen's time.

I think the horrible dress was simply to show that Mary was allowed to make a decision of her own, no deeper.

Just done some quick research into regency public balls and they were quite socially mixed, with local shopkeepers in attendance alongside the higher classes. So I suppose it’s not too enormous a leap for the optician to have maybe treated his assistant to a ticket?

I see what you're saying. It wasn't exactly breaking new ground. And my friend felt the same as you, she wanted to see a grittier story of a lady forging her own way in the world through career advancements. It was quite Mills and Boonish with an Austen veneer. But it was so charmingly done! Mr Ryder! Mr Hayward! The optician's assistant! Her sisters agog at her eligible gentleman caller. Miss Bingley throwing her corsets to the wind and hot footing it to Italy in pursuit of her man. Wonderful.

I was quite disappointed that this was resolved for Mary with yet another variation of the tired, romantic plot. It's so hackneyed.

I'd have liked to see her an independent woman travelling and running her own school. This reimagined character was no Lucy Snowe or Miriam Henderson, that's for sure.

See, I think I’m the opposite. I was glad she found somebody who loved her for herself. Being a feminist icon is all well and good, I’m sure, but I think most of us would prefer true love if given the chance.

He’s very nice, and helps Mary select glasses (after there’s a family fight about whether Mary is allowed to wear glasses), and they bond about reading, but then he bobs up at the Assembly and asks her to dance!

I mean, I know Assemblies weren’t gentry-only, and in theory open to anyone who could buy a ticket and behave, but even the requisite evening clothes would be out of reach for an optician’s assistant!

Like men weren’t allowed to wear trousers or boots. It had to be knee breeches, silk stockings and soft dancing shoes.

@Turophiles “Plus I think I just stopped believing in any of it when the writer had the Merton optician’s assistant attending the Assembly ball!”

That made me laugh! (I haven’t read the book or seen the TV series.)

I was quite disappointed that this was resolved for Mary with yet another variation of the tired, romantic plot. It's so hackneyed.

I'd have liked to see her an independent woman travelling and running her own school. This reimagined character was no Lucy Snowe or Miriam Henderson, that's for sure.

Yes, Caroline Bingley was brilliant — I didn’t know the actress, but was pleased to see her giant eyes pop up in this season of Ted Lasso (which is weak, but she’s great). And I liked the treatment of Mr Collins, too. Interesting to see a more nuanced treatment of a ‘flat’ background comic character, and that Mary might have actually considered marrying him, given the chance. And I agree about the Mary actress doing a good job with the character as written, and the camera loves her. I felt the writing was at fault, not her performance.

I think the red and green dress summarised my problem with the tone. Was the viewer supposed to think that such a garment looked nice? Better on Mary than the frumpy high-necked checked dresses she’s put in before she goes to live with the Gardiners? Or the plain lawn dresses in creams and beiges she looks wonderful in later on? Or are we supposed to see it as evidence of Mary’s zany period, even though it’s just as ugly as the dresses she wore at Longbourn? Or a suggestion that she’s colourblind as well as short-sighted? I suppose it raised issues about whether we were intended to trust her judgement in general.