MN Readalong : Homer’s The Odyssey in 2026

I was underwhelmed by it so far. It didn't sound poetic to me. My dad has always gone on about Greek epics so I just expected something else i think! But I will keep going.

Great analysis @tumbletoast

One of the interesting things about Greek is that it often has fewer specific words than English - or at least doesn't have equivalents for many of the precise and specific terms we have in English. So some of the subtle distinctions we might draw by using different words cannot be communicated directly the same way in Greek as it's just the same one word for what we would consider to be distinct concepts in English.

For instance, to take a less abstract example, Greek uses the same word for "arm" and "hand" (or "foot" and "leg"). You take the specific meaning intended from the context rather than the word itself. It's curious as a native English speaker as I often feel like I'm being too vague when talking in Greek because I want more specific and precise words for certain things. However I think it's quite useful to bear in mind as a characteristic when reading a translation of a Greek text.

I just found this written by Wilson on her translation of this epithet, which is probably more compelling than my take: https://open.substack.com/pub/emily613/p/on-complicated

Also this:
πολύ-τροπος , ον, (τρέπω)
A.much-turned, i.e. much-travelled, much-wandering, epith. of Odysseus, Od.1.1, 10.330.
II. turning many ways: metaph., shifty, versatile, wily, of Hermes, h.Merc.13,439; “τοῖς ἀσθενέσι καὶ π. θηρίοις” Pl.Plt.291b; and in this sense Plato took the word as applied to Odysseus, Hp.Mi.364e (Sup.), al.; τὸ π. τῆς γνώμης their versatility of mind, Th.3.83; τὸ π., of Alcibiades, Plu.Alc. 24.

1. fickle, “ὅμιλος” Ps.-Phoc.95.
2. of diseases, changeful, complicated, Plu.Num.22; also “πόλεμος τοῖς πάθεσι ποικίλος καὶ ταῖς τύχαις πολυτροπώτατος” Id.Mar.33; “στρατεία” Eun.Hist. p.223D.

https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.04.0057:entry=polu/tropos

@Stowickthevast I've never been sure what polytropos actually means - does it mean many ways of acting/being depending on the situation? Or is that a metaphorical usage? (The Fagles translation I think is "the man of twists and turns") Is it used elsewhere in Homer do you know?

Also late to comment. I read the start a while ago so don't remember it that clearly.

I studied books of the Odyssey at school and uni in Greek but never read the full thing so hadn't realised it started at the end and then flashed back. It's so interesting to think this device is literally as old as literature!

Yes Telemachus is quite annoying. But it did make me laugh that he tells the nurse not to tell Penelope that's he's gone for 12 days. That really is a long time not to notice your 20 year old isn't around, even if you do live in a palace!

I haven't read the introduction yet but read some interesting stuff about Wilson trying to translate more accurately by portraying the women in the house as slaves rather than maids. And the first line where she calls Odysseus "a complicated man" compared with "A man of many ways" or Samuel Butler who called him "an ingenious hero who travelled far and wide". The Greek is "polytropon" which literally does mean many ways.

Sorry bit of an diversion there.

The suitors ARE outrageous! Far too entitled for Penelope to want to marry any of them.

Sorry I'm late!
I found the Wilson translation pleasantly clear and accessible. I like the rhythm of it and the naturalism.

Re Telemachus, I felt he was acting out as he feels a bit adrift between childhood and adulthood. His father has been away for absolute years and he's not had a positive male role model that I can see, to guide him in how to be a decent man. I felt his comments about his paternity came from resentment at Odysseus not being there for him.

Then Athena shames him a bit by telling him to grow up and take charge of the situation. He knows she's right but I think he subsequently lashes out at his mum. I've got teenage / YA boys and I"ve often felt their confusion, fear and frustration aimed at me and belittling me or other women to make themselves feel more masculine and secure. It seemed quite modern in its understanding of psychology really, but maybe I'm reading too much into it.

I enjoyed Athena's agency and "take charge" kind of competence as shown here. She seems a pretty bad ass character which was a pleasant surprise as I was expecting it to be mostly focused on how great Odysseus is.

The suitors are outrageous! What a great situation engineered by the poet to lead to all sorts of conflict and tension.

Thanks so much @EineReiseDurchDieZeit , I appreciate you running this as it seems very achievable to read in the time scale

Hope I didn't write too much!

Just wanted to say how much I am enjoying the reading. When I mentioned to my book group what I was reading, most people commented that it must be a hard read, very dry. But it is not at all (reading the Rieu). I am finding it a great read.

I did think Telemachus was a bit rude to his poor mum and loads of the female population with his ‘no man can know his parentage’ bit

but to be fair in those ages of gods disguising themselves to have sex with humans they liked the look of i guess it was a fair comment

i did read in the intro about the hospitality theme running through the book and i can see how out of hand it could get with having to be hospitable to every tom dick and harry that rocks up

I wonder if we are just seeing Telemachus being angry or ambivalent about Odyaseus when he says he doesn't know if he is really his father.

What did everyone else think of the first two books?

Yy on following Xenia.

Telemachus is a weird mix of immature and not. He was born before Odysseus left Ithaca so will be 20/21 by the end of the books (not sure where in time we are now) But if he wasn’t Odysseus’s son, he would have little right to be lurking about the palace, so a rash (as well as disloyal) thing to say.

Good point on the summarising :-)

<hums “He Had It Coming” re Agamemnon>

I've really enjoyed coming back to the Odyssey and have loved Wilson's translation. A couple of things struck me.
One is how much ground Homer covers in the first few lines of the poem - giving us a quick summary of Odysseus's situation and then summarising the fate of Agamemnon - before zooming in on Telemachus back at Ithaca. It reminds me of something Emily Wilson said on the excellent zoom event someone posted here, which is that just because the epic is old, it doesn't mean it is unsophisticated. Starting the poem like this (and, spoiler, not having Odysseus appear in person for quite a while yet) is a deliberate decision by the poet.

Second, Telemachus comes across so young and immature! He must be at least 19/20 (not sure if the epic ever tells us exactly) but seems a lot younger.
Maybe that's why he says that about his mother, I'm not sure. However, in contrast to the suitors, when Athene arrives he does correctly follow the rules of Xenia ( guest-friendship) which is a theme throughout the book.
Looking forward to hearing others' views.

I need to go back and read the intro.

Can’t believe one of the first things Telemachus says to a “stranger” is that his mum might have put it about and he might not be Odysseus’s son. Ungrateful wretch.

I agree the translation was easy to follow. Enjoyed Claire Danes reading to me and also read the 2 books on Kindle.

(Off topic - @ShackletonSailingSouth i watched the documentary about finding your boat Endurance last night, it was excellent- I cried!)

I loved Wilson’s intro- how she sees Odysseus not as a hero entirely which I completely agree with. Her translation is easy to follow but loses some of the majesty and drama of some of the earlier translations I’ve read (bits of Rieu, all of Fagles) With The Iliad Lattimore worked best for me. I would love to try and get his translation of The Odyssey (assuming there is one)

Morning Odysseyians! Who wants to join me in giving Telemachus a Paddington Hard Stare?

I did two- looking forward to the chat tomorrow

Oh thank goodness, ive only read two as well 😀

Two it is 😀

(I have read 2)

This is what you said earlier

Thought it was 2

there did not seem to be a definite for 4,